Response to USAPA ad in USA Today

[toganoflex]

It's been awhile but I think they did try to negotiate it into the TA. My guess is the company wouldn't do it and both sides were worried about letting the merger slip away. Why didn't you guys have the smarts to demand it? If the merger went away you would have been happy, if not, the cost of raising east pilots would not have come out of your pocket. Real men of genius there. Every time I see a west comment about LOA 93 I shake my head. Pre has a tag line that says "LOA 93 observer". It should say observer and financial supporter of LOA 93.........

To the majority, as of now, LOA 93 and no Nic is preferable to a joint contract(along the lines of the Kirby, which is the best we have seen from the company) and the Nic. Very simple, really.

We did give. We gave and gave and gave and that is what allowed this merger to go through. The merger that saved your job and mine. You guys gave zero, but love Nic because it will let you profit, for the rest of your career, on what we gave.

Some guys would have been unhappy with less than DOH. With something a little better than the Nic, I firmly believe we would have accepted it. That's one of things you state as fact, when in reality you have no clue.

You guys have been saying "Any day now, you guys will say enough of LOA93." How's that working for ya?

My job was not in immediate jeopardy.

We had access to the credit markets.

You guys on the other hand...well we know how close you were to LIQUIDATION. And if we did get in trouble down the road, it was bankruptcy for us, NOT LIQUIDATION.

How long and how many times did you work bankruptcy?

And, from first hand experience (yep, I was there) there was NO "we" when it came to worrying about the merger slipping away. It was strictly you guys that absolutely needed to make it happen. If the merger failed, you guys were literally done a minute later.

We were even able to get our profit sharing negotiated into the TA with no help from you guys. And yes, you wanted parity but had zero leverage to get it. We had the leverage because we would have shut the merger down otherwise.

We could have cared less if it happened or not.

And like I said before, your sacrifices were strictly for US Airways and not for the merger. All that money you bet on your airline was lost. It had NOTHING to do with the merger.

 

[Pi brat]

My job was not in immediate jeopardy.

We had access to the credit markets.

You guys on the other hand...well we know how close you were to LIQUIDATION. And if we did get in trouble down the road, it was bankruptcy for us, NOT LIQUIDATION.

How long and how many times did you work bankruptcy?

And, from first hand experience (yep, I was there) there was NO "we" when it came to worrying about the merger slipping away. It was strictly you guys that absolutely needed to make it happen. If the merger failed, you guys were literally done a minute later.

We were even able to get our profit sharing negotiated into the TA with no help from you guys. And yes, you wanted parity but had zero leverage to get it. We had the leverage because we would have shut the merger down otherwise.

We could have cared less if it happened or not.

And like I said before, your sacrifices were strictly for US Airways and not for the merger. All that money you bet on your airline was lost. It had NOTHING to do with the merger.

You really need to keep up. It's not 2005 anymore and the reality of AWA's situation is clear. Stop ignoring it.

If you didn't want the merger, why did you stop it by insisting on parity? If they said no, no merger and you would be looking for a job now, and if they said yes, it wouldn't come out of your pocket.

Are you top 25% of west list, or bottom? I want to make sure and not make assumptions.

 

[767one]

Ummm... what? Yes, you can use an air start cart (some call it a huffer) to cool the plane. I think it forces the packs to run, but I'm not certain on the mechanics. To do this though, knowing you need an airstart, isn't the best idea. Running the start cart to run the packs heats the start cart up a lot, sapping the power to turn the aircrafts engine for the start. You're far better off using ground air, also known as pre conditioned air, to cool down the aircraft. Not only does it not kill the start cart, but it's more efficient and one less piece of equipment to deal with.

Sad to say the external air even without kinks does a very poor job of air conditioning the 757. In most cases the cabin is unbearable and the flight deck would make a pretty good replacement for the ovens that don't work in the galleys. If the airplane has ground air attached and is hot I ask to have the ground air disconnected and use the apu if it is operable. When arriving at the gate an a on a hot day I run the apu intill I find out if the gound air can hack it. If the ground air won't do the job the apu stays on.


Regards,


Bob

 

[767one]

My job was not in immediate jeopardy.

We had access to the credit markets.

You guys on the other hand...well we know how close you were to LIQUIDATION. And if we did get in trouble down the road, it was bankruptcy for us, NOT LIQUIDATION.

How long and how many times did you work bankruptcy?

And, from first hand experience (yep, I was there) there was NO "we" when it came to worrying about the merger slipping away. It was strictly you guys that absolutely needed to make it happen. If the merger failed, you guys were literally done a minute later.

We were even able to get our profit sharing negotiated into the TA with no help from you guys. And yes, you wanted parity but had zero leverage to get it. We had the leverage because we would have shut the merger down otherwise.

We could have cared less if it happened or not.

And like I said before, your sacrifices were strictly for US Airways and not for the merger. All that money you bet on your airline was lost. It had NOTHING to do with the merger.

I think it highly unlikely that absent our sacrifices this merger would have happened so it had EVERYTHING to do with the merger.


Regards,


Bob

 

[767one]

Yep. I'm wondering why your guys didn't negotiate pay parity into the TA. You thoughts?



Then why not accept the Nic, which was put together under and agreed to process, and get out from under that sub-B scale. To describe LOA 93 as B scale is a bit too generous.



I would have no heartache with that. But you have to give to get.



Here's where your east think is REALLY messed up. You guys gave away millions to keep you jobs. You had no idea a merger was coming when you started giving away the farm. All you wanted was to keep the airline alive back then. Those concession obviously failed to produce a viable airline and your bosses went looking for a way out. They found it in Parker.

So you guys gave zero for the merger. The merger saved you guys from the impending liquidation. You spent you capital on keeping your jobs, not merging the airline.

LOA 93 existed long before Parker came into the picture.

And it have been made very clear the no contract means LOA 93 until you figure it out.



It takes both sides for that to work. USAPA is doing just the opposite. Reopening nearly all of the closed sections, refusing to move on any of there cleary out-of-whack demands, and putting in people with ZERO (and I mean ZERO) negotiating experience.

Cleary doesn't want a contract - he wants time. Time to capture the attrition. But we're talking years here.

He doesn't care though. His nest is padded with FPL money and he works for home having NEVER occupied his office.

He does keep you distracted with bling and USAToday ads that cost well over $100k.



That's complete BS. Anything less than DOH and you guys would be unhappy.

Few more years of LOA 93 should bring you around.

Actually a few more years will not bring me around. A move off of nic might bring me around but you don't have much time.....better move quickly.


Bob

 

[toganoflex]

I think it highly unlikely that absent our sacrifices this merger would have happened so it had EVERYTHING to do with the merger.


Regards,


Bob

Sure the merger wouldn't have happened. You guys would have been gone in the early 2000's.

 

[toganoflex]

Actually a few more years will not bring me around. A move off of nic might bring me around but you don't have much time.....better move quickly.


Bob

There is no chance of coming off the Nic because there is no one in which to negotiate coming off the Nic.

The Nic is it.

Looks like you'll be working under your sub-B scale wages for a while.

And speaking of time, I still have 26 years to go.

 

[767one]

ah hahahah!!! wow talk about entitlment ... so you guys are angry that the company didn't start paying you more in some sort of handout TA ? what ,the company was suppose to give both sides all the benfits that would be derived from a contract WITHOUT a contract inked ? if the company had done as you suggest then both pilot groups would have been in a MUCH stronger postion to demand even MORE from the company ..

That's not how it works , and i know first hand because in the fleet serivce group we had to settle our differences BEFORE we could get a new contract ...

Doesn't seem to be working too well does it? Sometimes you have to think out of the box which is something lacking in our management. They prefer we have them by the cojones and now is the time to squeeze.


Bob

 

[Pi brat]

There is no chance of coming off the Nic because there is no one in which to negotiate coming off the Nic.

The Nic is it.

Looks like you'll be working under your sub-B scale wages for a while.

And speaking of time, I still have 26 years to go.

Yes there is, USAPA, the legal bargaining agent for the PILOTS of US Airways!

26 years to go, so I'm going to go with you are in the bottom 25%, so no wonder you love the Nic! You are in the prime windfall region!

 

[toganoflex]

You really need to keep up. It's not 2005 anymore and the reality of AWA's situation is clear. Stop ignoring it.

If you didn't want the merger, why did you stop it by insisting on parity? If they said no, no merger and you would be looking for a job now, and if they said yes, it wouldn't come out of your pocket.

Are you top 25% of west list, or bottom? I want to make sure and not make assumptions.

I actually refigured my position with the new list we recently got and I'm at about the bottom 30%.

I at no time stated we didn't want the merger. But if it didn't happen, we wouldn't have lost sleep over it.

And as for AWA, who knows. Our future, even in bankruptcy, was uncertain.

But we would have been around at least a few more years for sure.

You? Nope.

 

[toganoflex]

Doesn't seem to be working too well does it? Sometimes you have to think out of the box which is something lacking in our management. They prefer we have them by the cojones and now is the time to squeeze.


Bob

Are you sure its not your own cajones you're squeezing?

The company doesn't seen to be flinching at all and you're saving them millions under LOA 93.

That pain you feel in your groin might be self-induced.

 

[nycbusdriver]

if you don't stop , i'm going to think about asking my union to sue your union...... the comapny won't sue you ... but that doesn't mean the other work groups won't ...

Oh please! Don't THINK about it. ASK your union to sue USAPA.

My guess is they will call the HIMS committee before you can get to the door.

 

[necigrad]

Huh?

From someone who deals with this situation from the cockpit occasionally, your post makes no sense at all.

If you use the cooling unit, how is that one less piece of equipment to deal with? You can't start the engines with the cooling unit, so you still need the high pressure start cart anyway.

Some high pressure units are capable of running the aircraft internal packs, but the Airbus packs are very fussy and most of the high pressure units cannot be used on Airbus aircraft. On those that do, using the high pressure unit to run the packs then saves the need for a cooling cart, and one less piece of equipment (just the opposite of what you said.)

The packs do not "overheat" the unit and "sap" the power for start. The packs are turned off for start, even when using the APU.

Time for you to start the flying lessons, and get back to me in about 15 years on this.

I never said the packs overheat, I said the start carts can, and that the start cart is what's lost power for engine start. In regards to the amount of equipment, most airports (in my experience) have PC Air connections on the jetways. It's far easier to roll up a hose then pack the hose into an AC cart, then navigate it away from the aircraft. By using air available on the jetways you don't heat up the start cart and don't need an AC cart as well, thus eliminating a piece of equipment. As you said, in many cases getting air from a start cart (I really don't understand how this part works, though you've kind of confirmed my suspicions) often either isn't compatible or is just plain inadequate.

 

[necigrad]

USAPA should be quite now ......

i really think you need to keep your union vs union issues to yourselves ... stop running these adds that do nothing but drive away customers from our company and weaken all of us ....


if you don't stop , i'm going to think about asking my union to sue your union...... the comapny won't sue you ... but that doesn't mean the other work groups won't ...

Freedom, USAPA doesn't believe this is a Union vs. Union issue. I agree. This is an issue between a class represented by USAPA and the Company. While I agree that the ad was a horrendous idea, you're giving far too much credit to the American public. Americans will buy a ticket based on convience and/or price. This ad only makes US look bad, nothing more.

And don't threaten to sue USAPA. Besides being moronic, it's a waste of time and even a one word "No" response from a Union would detract too much from the other issues they have to deal with, the ones that are actually important. That's setting aside the fact that it's a loser suit. The Company MAY have a lawsuit, but even that's stretching things further then a piece of silly putty.

 

[Pi brat]

I actually refigured my position with the new list we recently got and I'm at about the bottom 30%.

Ok, I only have access to the west list on wings. Is that total or active? I will show you what your neighbor on the Nic out east is holding, despite having around 50+ less hulls than we did when the merger was announced.