Response to USAPA ad in USA Today

[Harry Callahan]

That's not how it works , and i know first hand because in the fleet serivce group we had to settle our differences BEFORE we could get a new contract ...

Yea man & look where we are now

 

[Pi brat]

ah hahahah!!! wow talk about entitlment ... so you guys are angry that the company didn't start paying you more in some sort of handout TA ? what ,the company was suppose to give both sides all the benfits that would be derived from a contract WITHOUT a contract inked ? if the company had done as you suggest then both pilot groups would have been in a MUCH stronger postion to demand even MORE from the company ..

That's not how it works , and i know first hand because in the fleet serivce group we had to settle our differences BEFORE we could get a new contract ...

It's not entitlement genius. It's the experience of watching what has happened by the road we did take. How has it worked out? How are things going? What are the true costs to the company?

 

[toganoflex]

The TA was supposed to be a temporary agreement to bridge us from two separate contracts until we had one new one, so it amended our contracts and could include about anything we all agreed to.

Yep. I'm wondering why your guys didn't negotiate pay parity into the TA. You thoughts?

All Parker had to do was to say "Guys, the history of the B scale shows us that paying a pilot two separate wages for doing the same job is divisive.

Then why not accept the Nic, which was put together under and agreed to process, and get out from under that sub-B scale. To describe LOA 93 as B scale is a bit too generous.

So, in the TA we are going to use the west pay rates and make the cost of raising the east pilots pay a cost of the merger and not a cost to you.

I would have no heartache with that. But you have to give to get.

The east pilots have given millions in concessions that allowed this merger to proceed, and it's the right thing to do. Even with raising their pay, their total package will still be way less than the west because of the LOA 93 concessions.

Here's where your east think is REALLY messed up. You guys gave away millions to keep you jobs. You had no idea a merger was coming when you started giving away the farm. All you wanted was to keep the airline alive back then. Those concession obviously failed to produce a viable airline and your bosses went looking for a way out. They found it in Parker.

So you guys gave zero for the merger. The merger saved you guys from the impending liquidation. You spent you capital on keeping your jobs, not merging the airline.

LOA 93 existed long before Parker came into the picture.

And it have been made very clear the no contract means LOA 93 until you figure it out.

Everything else in the east contract will have to stay the same until we have decided what each party is willing to do, but I pledge to you that we will work night and day to complete a new contract that puts you all on the exact same footing for pay, vacation, etc., because that is the right thing to do."

It takes both sides for that to work. USAPA is doing just the opposite. Reopening nearly all of the closed sections, refusing to move on any of there cleary out-of-whack demands, and putting in people with ZERO (and I mean ZERO) negotiating experience.

Cleary doesn't want a contract - he wants time. Time to capture the attrition. But we're talking years here.

He doesn't care though. His nest is padded with FPL money and he works for home having NEVER occupied his office.

He does keep you distracted with bling and USAToday ads that cost well over $100k.

Nic4us, if he had done this, you would be NicRus. This would be done. We would have had a joint contract and the Nic award would have been the LAST piece of the puzzle, clicking into place and pretty much sealing our fate.

That's complete BS. Anything less than DOH and you guys would be unhappy.

Few more years of LOA 93 should bring you around.

 

[SS255]

I have no idea what really happened, other than to have a pretty good sense that both sides are right to some degree, and wrong to some degree. (Isn't that how he-said/she-said works?)

I know that I will get flamed for stating this, but what concerns me about the ad in USA Today is that USAPA is effectively dragging customers into what really should be a dispute restricted to Labor-Management only......and speaking as a customer, that really bothers me. This is not the only instance of the pilots airing their dirty laundry in full view of customers, although it is the most shocking and (in my opinion) unprofessional.

I really wish that the whole seniority issue could be amicably resolved, because it does nobody -- not employees, not management, and certainly not customers -- any good for US Airways to be operating with an East Vs. West, Us Vs. Them mentality. Every bit of energy should be spent on making US a great airline, not trying to destroy it.

 

[Pi brat]

Yep. I'm wondering why your guys didn't negotiate pay parity into the TA. You thoughts?



Then why not accept the Nic, which was put together under and agreed to process, and get out from under that sub-B scale. To describe LOA 93 as B scale is a bit too generous.



I would have no heartache with that. But you have to give to get.



Here's where your east think is REALLY messed up. You guys gave away millions to keep you jobs. You had no idea a merger was coming when you started giving away the farm. All you wanted was to keep the airline alive back then. Those concession obviously failed to produce a viable airline and your bosses went looking for a way out. They found it in Parker.

So you guys gave zero for the merger. The merger saved you guys from the impending liquidation. You spent you capital on keeping your jobs, not merging the airline.

LOA 93 existed long before Parker came into the picture.

And it have been made very clear the no contract means LOA 93 until you figure it out.



It takes both sides for that to work. USAPA is doing just the opposite. Reopening nearly all of the closed sections, refusing to move on any of there cleary out-of-whack demands, and putting in people with ZERO (and I mean ZERO) negotiating experience.

Cleary doesn't want a contract - he wants time. Time to capture the attrition. But we're talking years here.

He doesn't care though. His nest is padded with FPL money and he works for home having NEVER occupied his office.

He does keep you distracted with bling and USAToday ads that cost well over $100k.



That's complete BS. Anything less than DOH and you guys would be unhappy.

Few more years of LOA 93 should bring you around.

It's been awhile but I think they did try to negotiate it into the TA. My guess is the company wouldn't do it and both sides were worried about letting the merger slip away. Why didn't you guys have the smarts to demand it? If the merger went away you would have been happy, if not, the cost of raising east pilots would not have come out of your pocket. Real men of genius there. Every time I see a west comment about LOA 93 I shake my head. Pre has a tag line that says "LOA 93 observer". It should say observer and financial supporter of LOA 93.........

To the majority, as of now, LOA 93 and no Nic is preferable to a joint contract(along the lines of the Kirby, which is the best we have seen from the company) and the Nic. Very simple, really.

We did give. We gave and gave and gave and that is what allowed this merger to go through. The merger that saved your job and mine. You guys gave zero, but love Nic because it will let you profit, for the rest of your career, on what we gave.

Some guys would have been unhappy with less than DOH. With something a little better than the Nic, I firmly believe we would have accepted it. That's one of things you state as fact, when in reality you have no clue.

You guys have been saying "Any day now, you guys will say enough of LOA93." How's that working for ya?

 

[cynic]

Not really, not hard at all. The TA was supposed to be a temporary agreement to bridge us from two separate contracts until we had one new one, so it amended our contracts and could include about anything we all agreed to. All Parker had to do was to say "Guys, the history of the B scale shows us that paying a pilot two separate wages for doing the same job is divisive. So, in the TA we are going to use the west pay rates and make the cost of raising the east pilots pay a cost of the merger and not a cost to you. The east pilots have given millions in concessions that allowed this merger to proceed, and it's the right thing to do. Even with raising their pay, their total package will still be way less than the west because of the LOA 93 concessions. Everything else in the east contract will have to stay the same until we have decided what each party is willing to do, but I pledge to you that we will work night and day to complete a new contract that puts you all on the exact same footing for pay, vacation, etc., because that is the right thing to do."

The only leverage Parker has against the East pilots in getting them to finish the seniority fiasco is the promise of more money. He has even said so several times in the past. If you want the money, work out a contract.

 

[Pi brat]

The only leverage Parker has against the East pilots in getting them to finish the seniority fiasco is the promise of more money. He has even said so several times in the past. If you want the money, work out a contract.

What prevented him from completing it before the Nic award came out? The love hate relationship you guys have with him amazes me. He could have finished this to YOUR benefit along time ago.

 

[john john]

The only leverage Parker has against the East pilots in getting them to finish the seniority fiasco is the promise of more money. He has even said so several times in the past. If you want the money, work out a contract.

And what leverage does USAPA have against Parker? I think you are looking at it

 

[cynic]

What prevented him from completing it before the Nic award came out?

I think everyone learned from the mistake in not finishing the contract and having it in place prior to a seniority resolution.

 

[freedom]

USAPA should be quite now ......

i really think you need to keep your union vs union issues to yourselves ... stop running these adds that do nothing but drive away customers from our company and weaken all of us ....


if you don't stop , i'm going to think about asking my union to sue your union...... the comapny won't sue you ... but that doesn't mean the other work groups won't ...

 

[Pi brat]

if you don't stop , i'm going to think about asking my union to sue your union......

It's not your call as to what USAPA should or should not do, but I think it certainly within you rights to ask your union to sue USAPA. Let us know what they say.

 

[ContUNITEus]

....what concerns me about the ad in USA Today is that USAPA is effectively dragging customers into what really should be a dispute restricted to Labor-Management only......

The problem is that under the AWA culture, employees do not matter... You will never get the attention of the peeps that are running the show over there in any other form than a drastic one, or if a really bad accident were to finally happen to prove that point. The current management at US Airways will not work with employees in a fair manner, even with things affecting safety.

Except for the mentioning of the "32,000 hard-working employees of US Airways" in the response by Isom, those 32,000 employees are just that - a number. There is no value behind that statement.

 

[traderjake]

How was your flight from LA the other night? Would have liked to have been a fly in the cockpit!

I've flown with Bill before, he's a great guy and we get along.

We both know we're not going to change each other's opinion.

I don't like his union strategy but I like him.

 

[Pi brat]

I've flown with Bill before, he's a great guy and we get along.

We both know we're not going to change each other's opinion.

I don't like his union strategy but I like him.

Good, that says a lot for both of you. I agree with you, he and I have had some big disagreements, but he has never failed to answer an email or phone call. I just stumbled on the flt number in catcrew looking for something else and wondered how it went.

MC and a certain pony hunting former CLT rep flew together a few months ago and both said they had a good trip and a good time. See, we can work together!

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

In light of what happened in Norway yesterday, I find your avatar especially offensive, if not revolting.

Why? The murderer was dressed as a cop. Would a picture of a cop holding a shotgun provoke the same reaction from you, and, why not?

How many "terroristas" that you know have been dressed as "Muslims"? The 9-11 murderers?