Response to USAPA ad in USA Today

[nic4us]

You are probably right, but I would also doubt this situation would have escalated to this level if Management were interested in reasonable labor relations. At healthy corporations these types of conflicts would normally resolve themselves internally with arguments of course, absent rancor. A full month later we don't have all the facts. And at USAirways, the facts are usually the enemy. Isom's rebuttal lacks specifics but He does engage in smear while accusing USAPA of the same. What's happening here is as predictable as gravity. This event is like a pot of boiling water that is starting to spill over. The burner was lit long ago in 2005 and management has no intention of turning down the heat. In fact I fully expect the heat to increase because that is who they are. This management team as a matter of corporate philosophy, purposefully promotes discord and division. Its good for there own bottom line. I have worked for many management teams but this crowd is in a class by themselves. What kind of self respecting manager of financial and human capitol, would create a personally lucrative on time bonus scheme that in effect reduces efficiency by padding block times. Parker and Kirby probably swell with pride when asked about the Triple Play.
I could go on but it so painfully obvious and almost comical to see and hear some of the indignant responses on these boards regarding the latest dust up. Thousands of us have worked for management teams with skill and decency. You apparently have not or you would not have asked such a question with your own answer included.

Can you give some examples of how you feel management is promoting "discord and division"?

 

[Pi brat]

I won't say anything on what happened, because I really don't know who's telling the truth, but I wish there would have been another way, other than posting an ad in US Today. Seems like that should be an absolute last resort.

Thanks for having the integrity to not judge without all the information.

I agree about the ad. I wish there was no fight that would lead to it, and I lay that squarely at management's feet. People wise, this is the most screwed up bunch I've ever worked for, and considering some of our former leaders, that's saying a lot.

 

[Pi brat]

Can you give some examples of how you feel management is promoting "discord and division"?

I'll give you one. We all should have been paid the same from day one.

 

[Art at ISP]

While I believe there was a good deal of truth in the original story, I also have reservations about politicizing it as has been done...

I did notice that today's 321 PHL to CLT had a broken APU .. So we roasted at gate B9 and had to air start from ground air before pushing back...which no doubt added to the 30 min delay which caused a number of misconnects in CLT..

Lucky it wasn't an ETOPS flight however, in which case I'd probably still be sitting in PHL....and if it is a safety issue I am FINE with that...

Oh I also noticed on every single digital gate sign showing flight data outside the gates, it gave arriving flight departing flight time, tail number, and of course, SAFETY FIRST.... And alot of yellow lanyards in PHL I might add...

 

[700UW]

The A321s at US are not ETOPS certified and US doesnt use them on routes that would need ETOPS, only the TA 757s, the 767s and the A330s are ETOPS qualified.

Its not ground air, that is used to cool the plane, its an Air Start Cart, which is pneumatic air under high pressure to start the engines on the ground.

 

[nic4us]

I'll give you one. We all should have been paid the same from day one.

Much easier said than done.

Which contract do you pick, the east pilot's and give the West pilots a paycut and LOA93 work rules, or do you take the West contract and cut the east's 757/767 330 pay and put everybody on the West's single payscale?

I do not know how it went down, but the TA was written and agreed to by the company and both MECs. I can't remember it has been so long, but didn't the company offer the West contract and the east MEC said no way they are giving up equiptment based payscales?

My point is that even this issue is not soley management promoting "discord and division".

 

[Art at ISP]

The A321s at US are not ETOPS certified and US doesnt use them on routes that would need ETOPS, only the TA 757s, the 767s and the A330s are ETOPS qualified.

Its not ground air, that is used to cool the plane, its an Air Start Cart, which is pneumatic air under high pressure to start the engines on the ground.

I am glad you feel the need to always correct people.

I know the 321 is not ETOPS certified, I was making a point...or rather a joke for those who actually got it.

With regard to the Air start cart, whatever, the engines had to be started before pushing back...

 

[CapnCockroach]

I'll give you one. We all should have been paid the same from day one.

...and don't forget, management created USAPA.

 

[traderjake]

We all should have been paid the same from day one.

We were offered the West contract and turned it down.

I'm not saying we should have taken it, but we were offered equal pay.

 

[necigrad]

Its not ground air, that is used to cool the plane, its an Air Start Cart, which is pneumatic air under high pressure to start the engines on the ground.

Ummm... what? Yes, you can use an air start cart (some call it a huffer) to cool the plane. I think it forces the packs to run, but I'm not certain on the mechanics. To do this though, knowing you need an airstart, isn't the best idea. Running the start cart to run the packs heats the start cart up a lot, sapping the power to turn the aircrafts engine for the start. You're far better off using ground air, also known as pre conditioned air, to cool down the aircraft. Not only does it not kill the start cart, but it's more efficient and one less piece of equipment to deal with.

 

[wopr21]

The problem with ground air is that there are so many kinks in the hose that the cold air never reaches the plane. If there were some hard connections at the turns, cold air would go where it needs to go. Sometimes there are even holes in the hose so during my walk around I can cool my ankles off in the sweltering heat. nice

wopr

 

[nycbusdriver]

Ummm... what? Yes, you can use an air start cart (some call it a huffer) to cool the plane. I think it forces the packs to run, but I'm not certain on the mechanics. To do this though, knowing you need an airstart, isn't the best idea. Running the start cart to run the packs heats the start cart up a lot, sapping the power to turn the aircrafts engine for the start. You're far better off using ground air, also known as pre conditioned air, to cool down the aircraft. Not only does it not kill the start cart, but it's more efficient and one less piece of equipment to deal with.

Huh?

From someone who deals with this situation from the cockpit occasionally, your post makes no sense at all.

If you use the cooling unit, how is that one less piece of equipment to deal with? You can't start the engines with the cooling unit, so you still need the high pressure start cart anyway.

Some high pressure units are capable of running the aircraft internal packs, but the Airbus packs are very fussy and most of the high pressure units cannot be used on Airbus aircraft. On those that do, using the high pressure unit to run the packs then saves the need for a cooling cart, and one less piece of equipment (just the opposite of what you said.)

The packs do not "overheat" the unit and "sap" the power for start. The packs are turned off for start, even when using the APU.

Time for you to start the flying lessons, and get back to me in about 15 years on this.

 

[Pi brat]

We were offered the West contract and turned it down.

I'm not saying we should have taken it, but we were offered equal pay.

When? I don't remember that. We had a TA and were negotiating a new contract that never got to the point of a vote.

How was your flight from LA the other night? Would have liked to have been a fly in the cockpit!

 

[Pi brat]

Much easier said than done.

Which contract do you pick, the east pilot's and give the West pilots a paycut and LOA93 work rules, or do you take the West contract and cut the east's 757/767 330 pay and put everybody on the West's single payscale?

I do not know how it went down, but the TA was written and agreed to by the company and both MECs. I can't remember it has been so long, but didn't the company offer the West contract and the east MEC said no way they are giving up equiptment based payscales?

My point is that even this issue is not soley management promoting "discord and division".

Not really, not hard at all. The TA was supposed to be a temporary agreement to bridge us from two separate contracts until we had one new one, so it amended our contracts and could include about anything we all agreed to. All Parker had to do was to say "Guys, the history of the B scale shows us that paying a pilot two separate wages for doing the same job is divisive. So, in the TA we are going to use the west pay rates and make the cost of raising the east pilots pay a cost of the merger and not a cost to you. The east pilots have given millions in concessions that allowed this merger to proceed, and it's the right thing to do. Even with raising their pay, their total package will still be way less than the west because of the LOA 93 concessions. Everything else in the east contract will have to stay the same until we have decided what each party is willing to do, but I pledge to you that we will work night and day to complete a new contract that puts you all on the exact same footing for pay, vacation, etc., because that is the right thing to do."

Nic4us, if he had done this, you would be NicRus. This would be done. We would have had a joint contract and the Nic award would have been the LAST piece of the puzzle, clicking into place and pretty much sealing our fate.

 

[freedom]

Not really, not hard at all. The TA was supposed to be a temporary agreement to bridge us from two separate contracts until we had one new one, so it amended our contracts and could include about anything we all agreed to. All Parker had to do was to say "Guys, the history of the B scale shows us that paying a pilot two separate wages for doing the same job is divisive. So, in the TA we are going to use the west pay rates and make the cost of raising the east pilots pay a cost of the merger and not a cost to you. The east pilots have given millions in concessions that allowed this merger to proceed, and it's the right thing to do. Even with raising their pay, their total package will still be way less than the west because of the LOA 93 concessions. Everything else in the east contract will have to stay the same until we have decided what each party is willing to do, but I pledge to you that we will work night and day to complete a new contract that puts you all on the exact same footing for pay, vacation, etc., because that is the right thing to do."

Nic4us, if he had done this, you would be NicRus. This would be done. We would have had a joint contract and the Nic award would have been the LAST piece of the puzzle, clicking into place and pretty much sealing our fate.

ah hahahah!!! wow talk about entitlment ... so you guys are angry that the company didn't start paying you more in some sort of handout TA ? what ,the company was suppose to give both sides all the benfits that would be derived from a contract WITHOUT a contract inked ? if the company had done as you suggest then both pilot groups would have been in a MUCH stronger postion to demand even MORE from the company ..

That's not how it works , and i know first hand because in the fleet serivce group we had to settle our differences BEFORE we could get a new contract ...