Response to USAPA ad in USA Today

[SparrowHawk]

The real question is if there were no contract issue ongoing would USAPA placed this add and the answer is absolutely not!

Well it might not be so clear cut. US has a habit of roughing up their employees and IIRC advertisements of a similar nature went up before during and after contracts were opened.

 

[Pi brat]

The real question is if there were no contract issue ongoing would USAPA placed this add and the answer is absolutely not!

Ah, always good to hear from Tempe. That is your opinion, but you state it as fact. The two issues are completely different for me. Are you a pilot?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Are all of you such weak leaders that ANY of this actually causes you problems? No wonder the mentally weak Captain had to be escorted from the gate. If I'm not ready, I don't go. It is just that simple. That concept hasn't ever given me one second of heart burn. It's called being in Command. It's in the job description. If it's too hard. Leave. Mental frailty is not something you can simply MEL. The Company did the RIGHT thing in removing the hysterical, ranting lunatic.

What a moron.

And, it IS just that simple.

You think you would stand there while your boss intimidates you repeatedly, customer service supervisors berate you and maintenance managers challenge you and maintain your captain cool. Doubtful. Getting on the PA and emphatically telling the customers the truth is something that we are supposed to do. Remember....an announcement every 15 minutes during delays.

My guess...at best, while you think you would be thumping your chest as the hero of modern aviation, you would more likely be peeing your pants while security escorted you to the door.

At worst, you would fly the broken airplane across the dark Atlantic playing the odds that the electrical system wouldn't burp.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Badmouthing every single East pilot on everything at every turn and opportunity while slurping on the company makes it awfully hard to avoid the conclusion that you have a touch of hysteria yourself. Just saying.

I agree, but don't make the mistake of calling him a weak hysterical maniac. He is for sure a strong one.

Regards,


Bob

LOL! You nailed it, Bob!

 

[nycbusdriver]

That and the Ram Air Turbine.

RAT never deployed. Engines were still lit and creating enough power to keep the generators and hydraulic pumps working. Just not enough to keep the airplane in the air.

 

[Res Judicata]

RAT never deployed. Engines were still lit and creating enough power to keep the generators and hydraulic pumps working. Just not enough to keep the airplane in the air.

He never advanced the throttles..so we'll never know about that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

In a day and age when the answer to most controversies is "plausible deniability", I smell something funny here.

First of all, is there is any shred of truth to the story as represented by USAPA, then heads should roll in Tempe.....and believe me people will find out--somehow.
Also, knowing Tempe's track record for truth and honesty, their rebuttal is a little too strong to be 100% believable. Couple this with Doug's rah rah article on safety in this month's magazine (which is VERY out of place for a CEO article), it just APPEARS that where there is smoke there is fire.

Now with all that said, I have serious concerns about USAPA turning this fiasco into a labor/management issue in a ploy to get contract negotiations going again. On this issue, regardless of the veracity of the story itself that is just plain wrong. It almost seems like USAPA is TRYING to force US Airways out of existence....which benefits NO ONE.

At the end of the day, I believe this will sort itself out, but there is wrongdoing on BOTH sides of this incident/issue as I see it... One needs to remember that to most people, Perception is Reality.....and the perception here is NOT too good....

There is more than a "shred" of truth in the USAPA article. All of this can be, and will be, attested to by the other 5 pilots involved. The "batteries were dead due to the repeated attempts to start the APU" is a red herring meant to convince the traveling public that USAirways management is being factual. The real fact is that the APU has its own battery (there are three batteries on the A330) and only THAT battery can be drained by starting the APU. The ther two batteries are there to give the pilots a minimum amount of power to get the airplane on the ground in the event all generators fail. If those generators fail, the batteries should automatically give the pilots the lighting and instruments they need. When the only generator running on the ground that evening suddenly quit, the cockpit went dark. The two ships batteries NOT involved with starting the APU did NOT connect to the cockpit instrumentation as they were supposed to, leaving the cockpit completely dark and without flight instruments. How would you feel being over the middle of the Atlantic when the cabin goes dark. Then, finding out that the pilots are left without essential instrumentation to control the flight path of the airplane. Maybe you're in clouds at the time, and the death spiral starts as the pilots have no instruments to know if the airplane is upright or not.

Have a good flight. Captain Wells, as well as 5 other pilots, decided not to risk hundreds of lives and stood up to the pressure. I don't know what she said to the passengers, but wouldn't you appreciate knowing that you were NOT going to be put at that known and avoidable risk?

In may very well seem like USAPA is out to destroy US Airways. That cannot be more untrue. We are basically married to this airline career-wise, and if airing the dirty laundry is the only way to get the attention of shareholders and board members, then so be it. What it comes down to is this: Will the shareholders be willing to risk the entire value of their investment over a possible shutdown of US Airways? The USA Today ad was aimed as much at the shareholders as it was at customers. Customers should not worry about the pilots who will do the right thing since our physical safety is on the line with theirs; their worry should be that pilots have to even fight this fight with management. The long history of airlines is riddled with management teams "pushing" pilots. (Yes, there is even a term for it, and that term originated in the 1930s.) If the shareholders are good with management "pushing" pilots, then they risk their investment over the inevitable tragedy that will, at some point, show itself. The pilots are the last line of defense for shareholders as well as customers against abusive management. Will they simply hang around to see who blinks first?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Let me see if I'm extrapolating the FACTS about this incident correctly:

• The APU would not start
• The Hot Battery Bus was dead
• Said battery was drained by repeated APU start attempts
• The MEL list permits ETOPS operations with an INOP APU
• The MEL list permits ETOPS operations with an INOP Hot Battery Bus
• The MEL list permits ETOPS operations with both the APU and Hot Battery Bus INOP

Is this summary correct? Which are wrong if not? I'm trying not to prejudge, but make an honest assessment of the facts, without USAPA or US Airways misrepresentations.

The Hot Battery Bus was unpowered, but don't buy the story about its battery backup being drained by APU start attempts. The battery that is supposed to power that bus in not the same battery that starts the APU (and never the twain shall meet.). Of course, the company is depending on that little bit of obfuscation to convince everyone that the airplane was perfectly ok. It wasn't.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Do you east guys really think that US Airways is an unsafe airline?

I would like an honest answer.

Let's put it this way, in US Airways Training Department terms: the old green, yellow, red splotch model of how to operate safely.

The airline is being shoved out of the green by management pushing their pilots and mechanics. The pilots and mechanics are valiantly pushing the airline back toward the green by using the very techniques that the US Airways Training Department is teaching its pilots. Follow Standard Operating Procedures, comply with FOM and FAR requirements, etc. But when the pilots do that, their bosses get upset. The schizophrenia in Tempe is palpable.

 

[icehead]

The real question is if there were no contract issue ongoing would USAPA placed this add and the answer is absolutely not!

You are probably right, but I would also doubt this situation would have escalated to this level if Management were interested in reasonable labor relations. At healthy corporations these types of conflicts would normally resolve themselves internally with arguments of course, absent rancor. A full month later we don't have all the facts. And at USAirways, the facts are usually the enemy. Isom's rebuttal lacks specifics but He does engage in smear while accusing USAPA of the same. What's happening here is as predictable as gravity. This event is like a pot of boiling water that is starting to spill over. The burner was lit long ago in 2005 and management has no intention of turning down the heat. In fact I fully expect the heat to increase because that is who they are. This management team as a matter of corporate philosophy, purposefully promotes discord and division. Its good for there own bottom line. I have worked for many management teams but this crowd is in a class by themselves. What kind of self respecting manager of financial and human capitol, would create a personally lucrative on time bonus scheme that in effect reduces efficiency by padding block times. Parker and Kirby probably swell with pride when asked about the Triple Play.
I could go on but it so painfully obvious and almost comical to see and hear some of the indignant responses on these boards regarding the latest dust up. Thousands of us have worked for management teams with skill and decency. You apparently have not or you would not have asked such a question with your own answer included.

 

[Pi brat]

You know I was just sitting here thinking about the west reaction to an employees being removed, especially since they don't really know what happened. I remember watching a PHX crew news session a month of so ago where the pilots were irate, immature and completely insubordinate to the CEO of our company. I wonder if any of them were escorted from the property!? Of course that was over a really big issue of distance learning pay, not some trivial issue like whether or not to take an aircraft over the Atlantic. :blink:

You guys are a piece of work.

 

[Alfa1900CSS]

I won't say anything on what happened, because I really don't know who's telling the truth, but I wish there would have been another way, other than posting an ad in US Today. Seems like that should be an absolute last resort.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The real question is if there were no contract issue ongoing would USAPA placed this add and the answer is absolutely not!

Yeah. This is really unprecedented. US Airways isn't really trying to second-guess the safety decisions of their captains.

Oops! Fuel school!

There goes your argument. Poof!

 

[ContUNITEus]

Do you east guys really think that US Airways is an unsafe airline?

I would like an honest answer.

Yes... It is an unsafe airline alone in the aspect of mobbing its employees.

 

[crazystnic]

No I do not know the answer to what east pilots think. That is why I asked the question. So in your opinion US airways is safe just marginally not as safe you think it should be. Does the cactus call sign make the airline unsafe? Do flows make the airline unsafe? That in your opinion it could be safer. In order to be really safe we could just never fly the jets that would be safe with a huge margin of safety. But you east guys have managed to damage aircraft just taxing around so maybe that would not fix it either.


You talk about constant intimidation and fear. I have never been intimidation and I am not afraid of management if I do my job the way the way they tell me to. What is it that you guys are doing that makes you afraid of management? Why are you afraid of management? Mighty usapa can protect you from the evil company right. Could it be that you are not doing what they tell you for some other reason and you are afraid to have to answer for your actions?

Simple question. Do you think that US Airways is an unsafe airline to fly?

asked and answered...