Reason Many Say AFA Is Waiting To File (NMB Replacement)

[LukeAisleWalker]

It never went away, IFS/Seniority Integration Committee/Seniority Lists and Analysis Look under Hot Topics on main page left.

Thanks. Several of us were pouring over the computer last week and couldn't find it. We found the graphs, etc but not the list.
I stand corrected.

So, yes poplockanddrop, we DO have access.
Does this mean you're ready to give your NMB ballot a "rip" when it comes time to vote?

 

[poplockanddropit]

Thanks. Several of us were pouring over the computer last week and couldn't find it. We found the graphs, etc but not the list.
I stand corrected.

So, yes poplockanddrop, we DO have access.
Does this mean you're ready to give your NMB ballot a "rip" when it comes time to vote?

Well, I don't work for neither DAL or NWA. I would never - and I mean NEVER turn down representation however.. Here is why, My family has worked in the airline biz for decades. My uncle goes way back to the early Continental days, and the days during their BK's... I have other relatives that work for SWA and US and I work for UAL. One thing I learned is this.. You don't control who manages your company, therefore you need a legally binding contract. I remember when my uncle was ashamed to work for CAL during their BK's - CAL was considered the trash of the industry. They almost filed CH7..

Many things took place at CAL many-many-many bad times, poor mgmt. etc... Now CAL is totally different with different people running the show. The employees could probably easily work with CAL mgmt. without a contract due to good relations between mgmt and employees, however many of them are not that naive and remember fond names such as Icahn and Lorenzo. Point being, things change - and unless you have a LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT, you are EXTREMELY disposable..

Just b/c you have a union and a legal contract doesn't mean that you can't have good relations with mgmt., - Like DAL mgmt., wants you to believe. Lets take a look at SWA, the heaviest unionized workforce in the industry with the best labor-MGMT. relations in the industry. Next look at CAL, same thing, good relations between labor and mgmt. with unionized work groups. Now lets look at UAL, if UAL flight attendants and pilots would not have had a union during BK, we could have all kissed our butts goodbye!!! UAL tried to start up a SEPERATE AIRLINE called TED. UAL wanted seperate pay rates etc.. If we would not have had a union this would have happened no question. Also, our international routes would be LONG GONE, luckily we have it in our contract that there can be no more than 1% foreign national flight attendants on property and they must be furloughed before any union employee is furloughed, we currently have 0 foreign nationals..

It really depends on your MGMT., and how they wish to treat employees, but your first clue should be this - DAL tries VERY hard to keep its employees non-union. Do you think they want non-union employees for sh@ts and giggles. NOT HARDLY!! DAL can have the same relationship with you UNION OR NO UNION.. Also, sometimes i wonder how crazy people over there are, i hear this stuff like, oh if you have a union you wont be able to do this or you cant do that.. YOU NEGOTIATE YOUR CONTRACT, if you want trans-con turns then put it in your contract, if you want a 12 hour duty day, negotiate it in your contract.. ITS UP TO YOU, not DAL... GROW A PAIR PEOPLE, Get a contract, negotiate what YOU WANT, Get some protection.. It isn't that hard.

 

[jalbalpa]

Pop....you're my new hero!

Speaking of what management at United wanted to do with Ted. Well, without a union it happened at Delta. It was called SONG.

 

[Dignity]

Pop....you're my new hero!

Speaking of what management at United wanted to do with Ted. Well, without a union it happened at Delta. It was called SONG.

well we have something similiar in our contract, actually it is a side letter, letter 11 that would allow 77 to 110 seat aircraft to be incorporated into the mainline fleet, and..to negotiate regional like wages for all block hours on those types of aircrafts, for mainline Flight Attendants..

so the question would have to be...were Song Flight Attendants compensated with regional pay or mainline pay?

 

[jalbalpa]

Song operated 757 aircraft(199 seats).

To my understanding they had lower payscale then mainline Delta.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Dignity]

Song operated 757 aircraft(199 seats).

To my understanding they had lower payscale then mainline Delta.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

if they were paying regional pay rates for a Mainline aircraft (757), I would find that to be an issue.

but what I do not understand is why am I working for a Mainline carrier and my contract says I could potentially be paid regional wages? I am just trying to get both sides here..

 

[jalbalpa]

Dignity...if you fly regional size aircraft then getting lower compensation compared to those that fly mainline planes makes sense if it is done to prevent furloughs etc...

Flying a 199 seat B-757 on a lower payscale does not.

 

[Dignity]

Dignity...if you fly regional size aircraft then getting lower compensation compared to those that fly mainline planes makes sense if it is done to prevent furloughs etc...

no it does not make any sense.. and a 109 seat aircraft is the same size as a DC9..

to actually agree to allow a Mainline Flight Attendant to be subject to regional pay rates at a Mainline airline is unbelievable to me..on that issue, I dont think so!

we all know this industry recovers at some point...this entire industry is cyclical...had they actually incorporated regional rates to off set a furlough, when the industry recovered some time down the road, that regional rate would still remain in place.. is it worth it to have to fly 100 hours at a Mainline airline and only compensated 1000.00 for the month actual flight time to offset a furlough? because that could have absolutely happened per our contract..

sometimes you just have to accept the bad with the good in a contract.. in order to move forward I guess..(at least it was voted on..)

but it still doesn't make any sense..

Flying a 199 seat B-757 on a lower payscale does not.

regional pay rates on a 757 is ridiculous..unless..

I wonder if the reduction of pay rates was actually considered first year mainline pay at the new airline if that is the case?

to my understanding the Song Flights interviewed so they were basically given an option to transfer over and start at the new airline..(were their pay rates considered year one Mainline? or their current longevity such as 8 years Mainline reduced to 8 year regional?)

but our contract has language that requires regional pay to be negotiated if that type of aircraft was incorporated into the fleet and that Flight Attendant would be subject to another concession on top of a concession.

and it probably would have happened if the merger did not happen when it did, and that language is still there.

 

[Dignity]

Just b/c you have a union and a legal contract doesn't mean that you can't have good relations with mgmt., - Like DAL mgmt., wants you to believe. Lets take a look at SWA, the heaviest unionized workforce in the industry with the best labor-MGMT. relations in the industry. Next look at CAL, same thing, good relations between labor and mgmt. with unionized work groups.

some are not necessarily anti-contract rather than anti-afa..I have spoken to some who do not want our current representative but would consider other options... everyone seems to have a different opinion on the issue.. its not all pro-union or anti-union..

SWA and CAL their Flight Attendants are not represented by our union.

 

[Airlinelifer]

some are not necessarily anti-contract rather than anti-afa..I have spoken to some who do not want our current representative but would consider other options... everyone seems to have a different opinion on the issue.. its not all pro-union or anti-union..

SWA and CAL their Flight Attendants are not represented by our union.

Southwest Airlines Flight Attendents are represented by the Transport Workers Union - Local 556

The Continental Flight Attendents are represented by the International Association of Machinist - District Lodge 142.

 

[poplockanddropit]

some are not necessarily anti-contract rather than anti-afa..I have spoken to some who do not want our current representative but would consider other options... everyone seems to have a different opinion on the issue.. its not all pro-union or anti-union..

SWA and CAL their Flight Attendants are not represented by our union.

You are right, CAL f/a union is not that great, take a look at their contract.. I believe CAL f/a's are the only f/a's they deal with.. About the only thing they have is higher rates of block hour pay.. The rest sucks.. UAL flight attendants have stronger scope than our pilots do - you can't buy that dignity.. You have zero scope at DAL =(

 

[Dignity]

you can't buy that dignity.. You have zero scope at DAL =(

lets not put that cart in front of the horse just yet!

yes I/we still have scope intact at NW, that is what needs to be protected and what ultimately will be decided ..if we will continue to have it.. going forward!

 

[poplockanddropit]

lets not put that cart in front of the horse just yet!

yes I/we still have scope intact at NW, that is what needs to be protected and what ultimately will be decided ..if we will continue to have it.. going forward!

And hopefully you do. I don't think these people realize that "work rules" amount to about a hill of beans in the end.. I can't tell you how many times UAL has tried to violate my contract, and I am glad that I have so I can say, no - I don't think so, take a look at section (insert number here ) of my CONTRACT... Now I don't even have to speak to a supervisor period b/c all of our disciplinary is done online. DAL f/a's need to take a look at what happened to the mechanics and think about it.. The only problem really is all the kool-aid in ATL.. Other than that, people are well aware of what happens out there. I just talked to a guy the other day that told me about a DAL flight attendant coming back from maternity leave and within 6 months had broken her leg.. DAL told her, we don't think this job is for you, and let her go.. Could you imagine that happening after 13 years of service??? Unreal!!! She was in the process of suing them the last i heard. I don't want to have to run to my attorney everytime... This is just one of the hundreds of stories I heard from people that manned the phones at the call center for the last vote.. I just couldn't believe my ears.. Also, DAL seniority list was not made public as of last year.. It was well tucked away behind the supervisors desk.

 

[Dignity]

And hopefully you do. I don't think these people realize that "work rules" amount to about a hill of beans in the end..

work rules are one of the highest priority..to me, scope is the most important.

I can't tell you how many times UAL has tried to violate my contract, and I am glad that I have so I can say, no - I don't think so, take a look at section (insert number here ) of my CONTRACT..

I agree that having it in writing offers many protections, but sometimes..a "fly it and grieve it" is not out of the question either..

. Now I don't even have to speak to a supervisor period b/c all of our disciplinary is done online.

personally feel its best to have a face to face meeting over any issue, but thats just my opinion on that!

DAL f/a's need to take a look at what happened to the mechanics and think about it.. The only problem really is all the kool-aid in ATL.. Other than that, people are well aware of what happens out there.

honestly do not know what they have experienced regarding their "culture" apparently its worked well for them, I hope that continues moving forward..

I just talked to a guy the other day that told me about a DAL flight attendant coming back from maternity leave and within 6 months had broken her leg.. DAL told her, we don't think this job is for you, and let her go.. Could you imagine that happening after 13 years of service??? Unreal!!! She was in the process of suing them the last i heard. I don't want to have to run to my attorney everytime...

but at this point its hearsay..

This is just one of the hundreds of stories I heard from people that manned the phones at the call center for the last vote.. I just couldn't believe my ears..

to be fair, I have heard a lot of good too, but its all relevant for informed decisions..different perspectives that is..

Also, DAL seniority list was not made public as of last year.. It was well tucked away behind the supervisors desk.

personally do not understand why this is being such an issue, there is a list and it can be accessed...but I will agree it should be accessible without having to ask a manager(if that is the case)

 

[BABABOOY]

poplockanddropit

......is this Pat Friend?