Rand Paul Detained by TSA

[joe mechanic]

Millions if not billions of dollars spent on finding a cure for cancer and they have nothing to show for it. They should stop looking.

Your argument holds no water. There has to be security at the airports. How do you suggest they do their job with out being invasive? There are quite a few arguments I can think of against the current processes of the TSA but not having stopped a terrorist is not one of them. Given that there has only been one instance in the last 10 years, it is not like terrorists are popping up all over the place to be stopped.

Security is invasive. The level of security seems to be related to the level of invasiveness. Tell us how you want it done.

Mr Paul knew the rules of the game. If he does not want to play, he could take a car or train. Sucks to be him.

Sir, you seem to be a proponent of the Constitution yet here you support relinquishing sacred liberty's for a temporary solution. You can not have your Constitutional protections both ways. You should rethink your position.
Sparrowhawk is supporting the position of the Constitution, you are not.
You should be asking yourself the question of how these intrusions can be accomplished within Constitutional boundaries.

 

[Ms Tree]

OK then tell us how you wish to run security for the airlines?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Millions if not billions of dollars spent on finding a cure for cancer and they have nothing to show for it. They should stop looking.

Your argument holds no water. There has to be security at the airports. How do you suggest they do their job with out being invasive? There are quite a few arguments I can think of against the current processes of the TSA but not having stopped a terrorist is not one of them. Given that there has only been one instance in the last 10 years, it is not like terrorists are popping up all over the place to be stopped.

Security is invasive. The level of security seems to be related to the level of invasiveness. Tell us how you want it done.

Mr Paul knew the rules of the game. If he does not want to play, he could take a car or train. Sucks to be him.

Ben Franklin holds no water? Oh OK, Let's just rely of the Back Bench Junior Senator posing as President and his infinite wisdom shall we? Look how well we've done so far! 30 some month with unemployment over 8%, $4.00/Gas, 25% increase in groceries, signing the renewal of the Patriot Act, Yeah wowser sign me up for that. Let's start another war. Let's go to Iran heck the Army isn't busy right now. Face it we lost the war and bin-Laden won so we now have to threaten Iran.

There is a significant number of Terrorists captured by the FBI, which is where the resources need to be allocated. No cure for Cancer? Be still ya hump. We get closer and closer every day and survival rates are near 100% on some types. My Mom is still alive thanks to these non cures.

What amazes me is what a bunch of fascists thugs Liberal/Progressives turn into if there oh so enlightened view is questioned. OOPS! Getting late, I think I'll visit Dell and we'll cling to our guns and say a few prayers.

 

[Ms Tree]

So what is your recommendation for airport security?

 

[joe mechanic]

OK then tell us how you wish to run security for the airlines?

Sir, you explain how to accomplish these measures within Constitutional bounds.
You broached the issue.

 

[700UW]

And if you dont like the TSA, an airport can opt out and use private screeners, but they have to follow the same procedures as the TSA, and I for one dont want the minimum wage private screeners, they were a joke.

 

[700UW]

Ben Franklin holds no water? Oh OK, Let's just rely of the Back Bench Junior Senator posing as President and his infinite wisdom shall we? Look how well we've done so far! 30 some month with unemployment over 8%, $4.00/Gas, 25% increase in groceries, signing the renewal of the Patriot Act, Yeah wowser sign me up for that. Let's start another war. Let's go to Iran heck the Army isn't busy right now. Face it we lost the war and bin-Laden won so we now have to threaten Iran.

There is a significant number of Terrorists captured by the FBI, which is where the resources need to be allocated. No cure for Cancer? Be still ya hump. We get closer and closer every day and survival rates are near 100% on some types. My Mom is still alive thanks to these non cures.

What amazes me is what a bunch of fascists thugs Liberal/Progressives turn into if there oh so enlightened view is questioned. OOPS! Getting late, I think I'll visit Dell and we'll cling to our guns and say a few prayers.

And this has what to do with the Rand Paul incident?

And the TSA was a George Bush and Tom Ridge creation, both Republicans... Gee go figure, lol!

Guess you never have flown EL AL, now thats security!

 

[Ms Tree]

You are the one who wants them changed. As I said earlier, in my opinion the level of security is directly related the the level of invasiveness. I do not believe there is a way to have adequate security with out sacrificing some freedom. If you can think of a way, please share with the class. Other wise it is like having an argument about gravity.

On second thought, there probably are ways to do searches that are less physically invasive (the see through Xray thing) but the cost would be quite a bit higher and I doubt the people want to pay for it. After all they would rather shop at walmart to save a few bucks.

 

[joe mechanic]

And if you dont like the TSA, an airport can opt out and use private screeners, but they have to follow the same procedures as the TSA, and I for one dont want the minimum wage private screeners, they were a joke.

Excuse me but I must comment. The TSA employees of late are no better than the last. Headlines and court records support that.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Having been to AMS many times and to BRU & DUB as well I think I prefer REAL security, not the security theater that is offered here in the US. Of the three airports above I felt more secure at Schipol in AMS then Zaventem, BRU then DUB.

AMS is by far and away the most no bull approach. It's not uncommon to see a few dozen members of the Royal Dutch Marines on active patrol FULLY armed. It's a three step process. Step one is Passport Control and you show your passport. Next is the metal detector. Last step is prior to boarding you have your passport scanned into a laptop which gives them whatever information they can get. (Not sure what's on it) They verify your name, where you live and then ask several questions designed to see if you react. They are basic questions, Who packed the bag? Any camera's? What were you in Holland?

My ancestors are a odd bunch. They are very Libertarian in so many ways. Yet they broker absolutely NO BULLSH*TE. The cops in AMS will throw in jail in a heartbeat and the airport security folks, while very polite carry themselves in a very military yet professional manner. Very no nonsense. The weird thing is that unlike the scanner/pat down procedures here you don't (or at least I didn't) feel violated you feel well screened.

The Netherlands really has only one major airport so they have the resources to do it right. Here we have at least 30-40 major airports and it's unclear that we could replicate the AMS protocols. There Screeners are contractors and frankly could give lessons in Polite, Professional conduct to the TSA. The issue is not Contractors vs Government employees it's the type and length of training.

There is often a fine line between that must be walked when it comes to balancing public safety and individual rights and Liberty. TSA has drifted to far to one side and perhaps Rand Paul's public challenge to TSA authority may help bring the equation back into balance.

 

[777 fixer]

AMS is by far and away the most no bull approach. It's not uncommon to see a few dozen members of the Royal Dutch Marines on active patrol FULLY armed. It's a three step process. Step one is Passport Control and you show your passport. Next is the metal detector. Last step is prior to boarding you have your passport scanned into a laptop which gives them whatever information they can get. (Not sure what's on it) They verify your name, where you live and then ask several questions designed to see if you react. They are basic questions, Who packed the bag? Any camera's? What were you in Holland?

You complain about the TSA yet you speak almost admiringly of the Dutch having Royal Dutch Marines patroling AMS fully armed? Ever hear of the Posse Comitatus Act?

 

[delldude]

You complain about the TSA yet you speak almost admiringly of the Dutch having Royal Dutch Marines patroling AMS fully armed? Ever hear of the Posse Comitatus Act?

Isn't that the one Bush and Obama shredded?

 

[777 fixer]

Isn't that the one Bush and Obama shredded?

Far as I know no.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You complain about the TSA yet you speak almost admiringly of the Dutch having Royal Dutch Marines patroling AMS fully armed? Ever hear of the Posse Concomitants Act?

Yes and I like the act. The Netherlands has no such act and I'm not sure how I'd feel about the USMC in PHL or MSP. In a small country like Holland I think maybe having the Royal Dutch Marines stationed there is probably a good idea. It's their version of Security Theater and I'm kind of OK with it.


The key to me is wording of the original ruling by the 9th regarding so called administrative searches. We've gone to far in one direction and that's the real issue. We're grossly out of balance. I DO like the Dutch Attitude and Approach. Which is basically "We have a few simple rules, you will follow them, no ifs ands of buts" It's simple, effective and less intrusive.

 

[777 fixer]

Yes and I like the act. The Netherlands has no such act and I'm not sure how I'd feel about the USMC in PHL or MSP. In a small country like Holland I think maybe having the Royal Dutch Marines stationed there is probably a good idea. It's their version of Security Theater and I'm kind of OK with it.


The key to me is wording of the original ruling by the 9th regarding so called administrative searches. We've gone to far in one direction and that's the real issue. We're grossly out of balance. I DO like the Dutch Attitude and Approach. Which is basically "We have a few simple rules, you will follow them, no ifs ands of buts" It's simple, effective and less intrusive.

Sounds to me like you are contradicting yourself. Would you want soldiers and Marines patrolling our nations airports?