TSA

[Dog Wonder]

I gave my point of view immediately.

Drama Queen.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Valetines Day is right around the corner boys. :wub:

 

[delldude]

Rand Paul chose not to abide by the established rules, thereby preventing him from being allowed to proceed to his flight.

Again, he is a lawmaker. All he has to do is convince the House and Senate to pass a law changing the rules and he will not have to worry about this.

If that was some unruly ows person causing a delay by refusing to follow the rules in the line in front of you, I bet you would be singing a different tune.

You seemed to have missed the 'point'.

The idea is to desensitize people to government intrusion, generally with something shocking (like treating a 6-year old girl as a criminal terrorist). That’s the tip of the spear. As the spear drives further and further into its target, subsequent intrusions seem less and less acute.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Valetines Day is right around the corner boys. :wub:

I'm holding out for you.

 

[777 fixer]

NO! You're stuck in Traffic. One os an overt act by the Government, the other isn't.



He was DETAINED! Civil disobedience is appropriate in order to draw attention to issues important to one. No less then Thomas Jefferson weighed in on this, "I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." - Letter to James Madison (30 January 1787)

As to the OWS protestor holding up the line, I'd either speak up and try to cause a commotion or wait patiently. Maybe I'd just try to get some folks chanting "Ron Paul, Ron Paul" and see if we attract the media.

Kind of funny you mention Rand Paul and civil disobedience at the same time. I wonder what Junior would have said about a black woman sitting where she wanted on a bus and then getting arrested for it. Or a young black man sitting at the counter at the local soda fountain.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Kind of funny you mention Rand Paul and civil disobedience at the same time. I wonder what Junior would have said about a black woman sitting where she wanted on a bus and then getting arrest for it. Or a young black man sitting at the counter at the local soda fountain.

I can't speak for either Dr Paul or his son. However as for me, I would applaud the person or persons. The Freedom Riders and all of the efforts of folks like Medgar Evers, MLK and so many others are the very embodiment of the words of Thomas Jefferson, just as those of us who protested the Vietnam War were.

I have heard Dr Paul speak regarding how our drug laws harm the poor and minority communities disproportionately. He recently came out against the death penalty due to the fact that only poor and minorities get executed. His exact quote from that speech was "Face it! Rich White Guys don't get executed" He admitted this was a recent change of heart.

In General the Paul family and Libertarians view individual liberty as the cornerstone of the Republic.

 

[777 fixer]

I can't speak for either Dr Paul or his son. However as for me, I would applaud the person or persons. The Freedom Riders and all of the efforts of folks like Medgar Evers, MLK and so many others are the very embodiment of the words of Thomas Jefferson, just as those of us who protested the Vietnam War were.

I have heard Dr Paul speak regarding how our drug laws harm the poor and minority communities disproportionately. He recently came out against the death penalty due to the fact that only poor and minorities get executed. His exact quote from that speech was "Face it! Rich White Guys don't get executed" He admitted this was a recent change of heart.

In General the Paul family and Libertarians view individual liberty as the cornerstone of the Republic.

I'm not talking about Ron Paul or drugs. I'm talking about Rand Paul and his comments regarding about not liking telling private companies what they can and cannot do regarding things like discrimination.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'm not talking about Ron Paul or drugs. I'm talking about Rand Paul and his comments regarding about not liking telling private companies what they can and cannot do regarding things like discrimination.

I don't care for that aspect of the Civil Rights Act either. IIRC, Rand said he was "Uncomfortable" with the Private Company/Property issues. In pure terms, I would agree philosophically.

However a law like the Civil Rights Act requires a less ideological approach. Much like we have the USDA to help ensure the safety of our food supply, sadly we must have a Civil Rights Act as well. In these areas a pure Libertarian point of view runs square into the reality of our society.

Regarding the role of the Federal Government. I am personally of the opinion that those blacks in the south who put their lives at risk from Brown V Board of Education through the death of MLK in 1968 did more in those 15 years to improve their situation then has been accomplished since through Government action.

 

[777 fixer]

I don't care for that aspect of the Civil Rights Act either. IIRC, Rand said he was "Uncomfortable" with the Private Company/Property issues. In pure terms, I would agree philosophically.

You can't have it both ways. You cannot say you would applaud the efforts of people standing up for their rights and then turn around and say you agree with Rand Paul's take on the subject. It's either one or the other.

It does not take a genius to figure out why Rand Paul views that subject the way he does. He was never called boy or the n word, he was'nt forced to used a different entrance, or had his skull cracked open just because, or was arrested by some hick sheriff becasue he did not sit in the back of the bus. No, Rand Paul is just some spolied brat who had all the creature comforts of growing up a uppermiddle class white kid.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You can't have it both ways. You cannot say you would applaud the efforts of people standing up for their rights and then turn around and say you agree with Rand Paul's take on the subject. It's either one or the other.

It does not take a genius to figure out why Rand Paul views that subject the way he does. He was never called boy or the n word, he was'nt forced to used a different entrance, or had his skull cracked open just because, or was arrested by some hick sheriff becasue he did not sit in the back of the bus. No, Rand Paul is just some spolied brat who had all the creature comforts of growing up a uppermiddle class white kid.

Actually I can have it any way I like!

Just because you may not agree with every aspect of a philosophy does not mean one must maintain a strict ideology on a given issue. IOW, An act like the Civil Rights Act trumps my concerns over the modest loss of individual liberty. For me it's real simple. If a rule or law results in more individual Liberty for more people then I'm in favor of it. In the case of the Civil Rights Act even Stevie Wonder can see that increasing Civil Rights of a large group far outweighs all other consideration.

Even though different from the basic premise of Individual Liberty and Natural Law the end result of more freedom, more liberty for more people is consistent. This is typical throughout history. The debate of where the line is drawn between the rights of a society/government versus of the rights of the individual is healthy. Blind obedience to a political party or ideology is unhealthy.

 

[777 fixer]

Blind obedience to a political party or ideology is unhealthy.

You might want to tell that to yourself.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You might want to tell that to yourself.

I DO have long held beliefs. When I started out getting interested in politics I was a typical East Coast "Rockefeller Republican". Over time I gradually became more and more of a Libertarian.

One of the things I don't tow the Libertarian line is in case of Natural Disasters. Most Libertarians don't think FEMA is an appropriate role for the Federal Government. My feeling is the role of the Federal Government is to protect our citizens. To me, this would include not only foreign invasion but to our response in times of natural disaster.

During Katrina, IMO the US Government should have came in like gang busters and told those two twits Landreau and Nagel to GTFOOTW and taken charge and saved lives, property and infrastructure wherever possible. Similarly I'm very Pro-Choice, but feel it's a state issue which differs from the position of Dr Paul and frankly the issue is as divisive as it is in any other political party

 

[Dog Wonder]

During Katrina, IMO the US Government should have came in like gang busters and told those two twits Landreau and Nagel to GTFOOTW and taken charge and saved lives, property and infrastructure wherever possible.

Landreau and Nagel?

The US government, Army Corps of Engineers, was a primary cause of the damage caused by Katrina. Michael Brown was in charge of the US Government, FEMA, emergency effort and couldn't even dress himself.

Is that the US Government you are talking about?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Landreau and Nagel?

The US government, Army Corps of Engineers, was a primary cause of the damage caused by Katrina. Michael Brown was in charge of the US Government, FEMA, emergency effort and couldn't even dress himself.

Is that the US Government you are talking about?

Governor Mary Landreau and Mayor of New Orleans Ray Nagel. Bush is on record of holding back when it was time to go in citing a concern regarding not trampling the "locals" who were Democrats. Michael Brown was an issue and the whole FEMA response was poor at best in the beginning.

To blame just the Army Corp of Engineers is at best a surface evaluation. Louisiana, for better or worse is the only state that bases their laws on French Common Law. Anyone who has ever tried to navigate the byzantine world of LA politics knows full well that things are almost never as they seem. Yes the Corp built the levees, but they sure as balls didn't set up the various water districts that were responsible for the levees. Some which eventually broke for a variety of reasons, primary among them is deferred maintenance and the graft and corruption associated with the water districts.

Additionally, Katrina is but one example of the US Government failing to do what I feel is a basic task under the COTUS. To me "Provide for the common defense" includes natural disaster.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Governor Mary Landreau and Mayor of New Orleans Ray Nagel. Bush is on record of holding back when it was time to go in citing a concern regarding not trampling the "locals" who were Democrats. Michael Brown was an issue and the whole FEMA response was poor at best in the beginning.

To blame just the Army Corp of Engineers is at best a surface evaluation. Louisiana, for better or worse is the only state that bases their laws on French Common Law. Anyone who has ever tried to navigate the byzantine world of LA politics knows full well that things are almost never as they seem. Yes the Corp built the levees, but they sure as balls didn't set up the various water districts that were responsible for the levees. Some which eventually broke for a variety of reasons, primary among them is deferred maintenance and the graft and corruption associated with the water districts.

Additionally, Katrina is but one example of the US Government failing to do what I feel is a basic task under the COTUS. To me "Provide for the common defense" includes natural disaster.

The Governor was Kathleen Blanco, the Mayor of New Orleans was Ray Nagin. Mary Landrieu was, and is, a US Senator. Bush was holding back because he was on vacation. Brown was a partisan appointed idiot.

Louisiana originally based its legal system on French civil, not common, law. Both are part of the Lousiana legal system. Neither had to do with the Army Corps of Engineers inadequate design and construction of the levees, the cause of all but one of fifty-some failures and overtopping of the protective system. The one due to maintenance, the overtopping of a levee on the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, MRGO, This failure was due to inadequate dredging of MRGO by, damn, the Army Corps of Engineers

Suffice to say your understanding of Katrina and its aftermath is as astute as your grasp of the facts involved.

Sorry for a Sparrowhawk length post.