Question, Foreign Maintenance

[Checking it Out]

What are your views on outsourcing of Aircraft Maintenance to foreign countries?

Do you approve or dis-approve of the practice?

 

[Hopeful]

Disapprove. Mainly because of lose of US jobs.

But since 9/11, I have a new concern. Suppose US carriers have their major aircraft overhaul work done in Mexico, Asia, Far East,, etc.
Think about a terrorist network infiltrating these aircraft which are dismantled for 3-4 weeks at a time. Terrorists can have mechanics with access to these aircraft place explosive devices and use other forms of sabatoge to destroy them. Who knows what the security is like at these places. the terrorists can handsomely reward an aircraft worker to "place" a device deep inside an aircraft and have it explode at a predetermined time.

Not to sound like a James Bond movie, but after 9/11, anything can happen!

 

[Boomer]

CIO,
It all depends on the Union that negotiated the agreement and the rules that underly the ratificaton of that agreement.

 

[Checking it Out]

So are you saying it is okay to outsource to a foreign country? Or is it OK for one union to do it and another can't?

 

[twuer]

CIO,
It all depends on the Union that negotiated the agreement and the rules that underly the ratificaton of that agreement.

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Outsourcing is outsourcing no matter what union is involved!! That work goes over seas, that work (and the jobs) is gone!! PERIOD!!!!!



Our work needs to stay in-house!!

I have to agree with Hopeful, the threat is too great! In more areas than just terrorism!! The quality of the mechanics is also another issue. We (U.S.) have the best mechanics bar none. Outsourcing allows our jobs to be thrown to the wayside while some less-than-qualified mechanic does the work on the aircraft.


WHAT PART OF OUTSOURCING DO YOU NOT GET????????

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Outsourcing is outsourcing no matter what union is involved!! That work goes over seas, that work (and the jobs) is gone!! PERIOD!!!!!



Our work needs to stay in-house!!

I have to agree with Hopeful, the threat is too great! In more areas than just terrorism!! The quality of the mechanics is also another issue. We (U.S.) have the best mechanics bar none. Outsourcing allows our jobs to be thrown to the wayside while some less-than-qualified mechanic does the work on the aircraft.


WHAT PART OF OUTSOURCING DO YOU NOT GET????????

Outsourcing is the erosion of our profession. Any work that goes overseas or stays in this country will take an eternity to be returned to the carriers. Our work does need to stay in house but not by "in-sourcing". The srp/osm is outsourcing no matter how the twu spins it.

AMFA has sponsored two rallys against FAR 145. Where were the other airline unions? Does a pilot care if a non-A&P person from China or Singapore repaired his engine pylon or rigged his rudder/aileron/flaps? Airline inhouse overhaul is being attacked and we need to inform the public about this outsourcing.

twuer is correct: outsourcing is outsourcing.

 

[Checking it Out]

Ken, you brought up an interesting issue. You believe outsourcing is wrong but in-sourcing is also wrong. How do you propose to offer an alternative to the OSM positions and still be competitive in the Industry?

At NWA their was a rally, yes but where was NW or the politicians? Here at AA all parties affected had a showing and our presence was very well known in D.C to stop the trend!

Their is an interesting article on the Atlanta newspaper about outsourcing in the Aug. 1st edition. It goes in to detail about the cost advantage is not always their and once the employees become trained they also demand higher wages. So the cost advantage is short lived.

 

[Checking it Out]

I want you to read what this letter of agreement Amfa and United negotiated while they were at NWA picketing concerning the outsourcing to foreign countries!!!!

Click here to dee heavy maintenance going to foreign country compliments of Amfa!!

Can anyone remember the badgering we got years ago when two (2) 727 A/C were being sent to Delta in exchange for engine work at AA and Amfa getting cards signed over the deal?

Now look! Amfa is negotiating 3 Heavy check lines for a term of 5 years!!!!!!

Go ahead and defend them!!!!!!! fhey just keep doing the downword spin!!!

Are you also aware United announced more layoffs in SFO!!!!!!!!

I repeat again Amfa talking out of both sides of their mouths Picketing on July 2nd against Foreign Maintenance while agreeing July 1 to allow 3 check lines going to a foreign country!!!!!!

Can anyone believe this???

 

[Mark Inman]

Hey CEO you self serving turd where are the signatures at on this agreement ?

 

[scorpion]

I want you to read what this letter of agreement Amfa and United negotiated while they were at NWA picketing concerning the outsourcing to foreign countries!!!!

Click here to dee heavy maintenance going to foreign country compliments of Amfa!!

Can anyone remember the badgering we got years ago when two (2) 727 A/C were being sent to Delta in exchange for engine work at AA and Amfa getting cards signed over the deal?

Now look! Amfa is negotiating 3 Heavy check lines for a term of 5 years!!!!!!

Go ahead and defend them!!!!!!! fhey just keep doing the downword spin!!!

Are you also aware United announced more layoffs in SFO!!!!!!!!

I repeat again Amfa talking out of both sides of their mouths Picketing on July 2nd against Foreign Maintenance while agreeing July 1 to allow 3 check lines going to a foreign country!!!!!!

Can anyone believe this???

Air Canada – Greg Hall will make a presentation for the trade of A320 HMV’s (which we do not currently work) to Air Canada in exchange for PW4000 engine work. This issue came up before and has been renewed. The membership will have a full vote on this if the company and union come to agreement.

Cio you have got to be the biggest teller of white lies that I have ever seen. What actually happened was work that had been outsourced by the iam was traded for engine work to be brought inhouse. Also the membership will get to vote on it. Whens the last time our membership voted on a letter of agreement? Your trying to water this down before anyone gets wind of it.

Also their voting on 4/10's with no production or sick time requirements like the twu is letting the company get away with. They get double time after 12 hours and on the 2nd and 3rd day of work on their scheduled days off. Also 10 hours sick time not 5 if they call in.

You posted this topic just to try and set everyone up but unlike Paul Harvey you never tell the rest of the story you turd.

All this info is available on local 9's website.

 

[Checking it Out]

Go ahead and justify negotiating a letter of agreement to send US JOBS out of the country!!! Any self respecting Union or Association would be negotiating terms to save jobs not eliminate them!!!!!

Tell us how it is okay?

Tell us how it is not Amfa's fault?

Their names are on the letter no one else's not the IAM!

While laying off 200 plus members they are negotiating away work? Period!

You are correct I new the story before the thread was started! That is an informed member since the agreement was made over 30 days ago!!!

Like I said, the OUTSOURCING Starts with McCormick and goes downhill from their!!!!!

How can a self respecting person justify these actions? While rallying members against Foreign Maintenance they were NEGOTIATING away jobs!

Go ahead lets hear it!!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

cio, by your statement: "Ken, you brought up an interesting issue. You believe outsourcing is wrong but in-sourcing is also wrong. How do you propose to offer an alternative to the OSM positions and still be competitive in the Industry?", you show your ability to roll over and expose your soft underbelly much the way a domesticated animal will do for their master.

How do I propose an alternative to the OSM positions and still be competitive? Why did we have to give up pay and benefits to AA if the OSM program makes us competitive? Perhaps the twu will allow a greater percentage of skilled A&P positions to be reclassified as OSM positions. Now THAT would make us competitive.

You want a proposal? How about the twu acting like a REAL union and protect OUR profession. Now all we hear is, "Let's fight to get back what we gave up!". It was the twu that started the insourcing and other airlines followed their lead.

" At NWA their was a rally, yes but where was NW or the politicians? Here at AA all parties affected had a showing and our presence was very well known in D.C to stop the trend!"

Where was the twu's rally? And can you show pictures of the politicians that attended this rally? Are you saying that NW did not attend the AMFA rally? Why would NW management attend? NW AMTs attended as well as Alaska and AA AMTs.

Facts remain that the twu and iam allowed outsourcing to start. PERIOD! Your defense of industrial union's lack of ability to prevent jobs from going overseas or being outsourced in this country will lead to the twu's removal from representing AMTs at AA. Buy the way, were you at any rally to protest FAR 145?

 

[scorpion]

Go ahead and justify negotiating a letter of agreement to send US JOBS out of the country!!! Any self respecting Union or Association would be negotiating terms to save jobs not eliminate them!!!!!

Tell us how it is okay?

Tell us how it is not Amfa's fault?

Their names are on the letter no one else's not the IAM!

While laying off 200 plus members they are negotiating away work? Period!

You are correct I new the story before the thread was started! That is an informed member since the agreement was made over 30 days ago!!!

Like I said, the OUTSOURCING Starts with McCormick and goes downhill from their!!!!!

How can a self respecting person justify these actions? While rallying members against Foreign Maintenance they were NEGOTIATING away jobs!

Go ahead lets hear it!!!!

cio I'm starting to realise your just as wishy washy as your posts sound. You've had your head burried in the sand so long that your sounding as if you have oxygen deficiancy.

For one their trading work they don't have for work to be brought inhouse. Now if their (AMFA) not currently doing this work (because it was lost under the iam watch) whats to keep UAL from sending it to Canada regardless. You refuse to admit there will be engine work brought inhouse from the deal but blow out of proportion the work that isn't being performed by UAL mechanics that is going to change hands. Do we have the power to tell AA what vendor can or can't do our outsourced work?
You want to know how this is okay? How about trading engine work for no work! How about I trade you 20 of my imaginary dollars for 20 of your real dollars, get the picture.

Laying off 200 while negotiating away work? Like I said it wasn't their work, it was allready gone.

How can a self respecting person post the twisted B.S. you post and be all there?

You failed to mention the AMFA membership will vote on this? Do we have this right?
How about the 4/10 agreement? No games just straight forward wording. Our members are having to jump through hoops to make it happen.

Just curious are you getting UB money to post on these boards while drawing sick pay?

 

[Checking it Out]

Nope, I have received no money from the Union to defend the TWU membership!

Scorpion, I did not miss anything, fact remains Amfa should have been negotiating to bring the work in-house. Not sending it out of the country! Justification? Their is none!!!

Regardless this should have never happen while NWA is picketing, Also with the other members from the different airlines in attendance on July 2nd.

Vote or no vote? Are they picking and choosing what letter to vote on?

 

[scorpion]

Nope, I have received no money from the Union to defend the TWU membership!

Scorpion, I did not miss anything, fact remains Amfa should have been negotiating to bring the work in-house. Not sending it out of the country! Justification? Their is none!!!

Regardless this should have never happen while NWA is picketing, Also with the other members from the different airlines in attendance on July 2nd.

Vote or no vote? Are they picking and choosing what letter to vote on?

You've skirted around my post and picked and choosed what parts to comment on while not addressing any questions like do we have the right to vote on letters of agreement etc. etc. to the point its like talking in circles. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they brought engine work inhouse and they did this by negotiating with work they weren't even doing. Thus my comparison to trading imaginary dollars for real dollars. Not bad negotiating huh. As far as A320 HMV's how many airframes does this entail? Remember this work was allready outsourced. Maybe they tried to get it back but the iam's brilliant job of letting the work go in the first place had their hands tied. Like I asked before do we have the authority to tell AA what vendor they can use? If UAL decides to move airframe work that is allready outsourced from one repair facility to another its not any different.

By the way your defending the international not the membership. Big difference pal.