PTO's NWA Scab Career...

[local 12 proud]

What, other than market forces, would drive down the value of a certain job? Companies like NWA are reacting to market forces; nothing else.

I know you'd like to think there is some sinister plot being carried out by the powers that be, but that is just a dreamed up boogeyman that people use when they don't or can't understand the impacts of a dynamic and free economic system.

If the quality suffers and customer service deteriorates, then market forces will push up the wages to attract higher quality employees. It works in both directions, and works quite well when prices (wages) are allowed to follow supply and demand.

Well then in the mean time enjoy your ride down!

 

[finman]

This a HUGE fallicy perpetuated by Airline management devoid of ANY actual concept of leadership. The Market Forces are artificially impacted by the Bankruptcy Courts.

When you have First Officers earning LESS than a Wendy's Assistant Manager then you have used the legal system to artificially devalue the earning ability.

Why not share with us what the Salary Scale of the 6 largest non US carriers in the world against the following.

The US and European LCC's such as Ryan, SWA, Spirit etc

The So called "Big Six" excluding AA & CO who have not been in BK then add them into the mix.

Do the same for every job class and let's see how it turns out. Then we will know if your claim is bogus. Let's see some facts.

You can check them out for yourself. I think you'll see that the non-BK airlines pay about the same as the BK airlines for similar aircraft types. If you want me to run a comparitive analysis for you, let me know, and I'll do it when I get time. NWA pay scales are not included on this web site, but I can supply them for you if needed. If the claim is not bogus for the pilots, then I would presume we can skip doing the same analysis for the other work groups?

www.willflyforfood.cc/PayScales.htm

 

[finman]

You can check them out for yourself. I think you'll see that the non-BK airlines pay about the same as the BK airlines for similar aircraft types. If you want me to run a comparitive analysis for you, let me know, and I'll do it when I get time. NWA pay scales are not included on this web site, but I can supply them for you if needed. If the claim is not bogus for the pilots, then I would presume we can skip doing the same analysis for the other work groups?

www.willflyforfood.cc/PayScales.htm

It looks like that site is not very well updated. Here is a better pay scale resource for pilots.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airline...-2005030344.htm

The NWA rates on here are updated to reflect the T/A rates.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

It looks like that site is not very well updated. Here is a better pay scale resource for pilots.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airline...-2005030344.htm

The NWA rates on here are updated to reflect the T/A rates.

Using the site you posted, you need look no further than a SWA to NWA comparison on similar equipment. However, since people have heartache with that comparison, its alittle less obscene if you look at AirTran or Alaska. Don't even try to use the majors outside the US.

Bankruptcy is N-O-T market forces. Its the result of bad management not responding properly to market forces when they should've.

 

[FWAAA]

I just did a quick Top Of Scale for a B737 o AB319/20 comparison and it ain't pretty. numbers are for 70 Hours per month flying (I know low) and are averaged as follows.

As you can see there is a significant difference between the non BK and BK'ed "Majors". Of all the airline sampled only SWA ranked below the average of $9,167 by roughlt $300/mo.

Piney, the bolded portion from your post makes no sense. Southwest captains make more per hour top of scale ($190) than at any other major passenger airline in the USA, yet you say they ranked "below the average." That is plainly wrong. WN captains make $13,300/mo top of scale (12 years).

In fact, a 12 year WN captain makes more money than any pilot at CO, DL, NW, UA or US. The only major airline pilots making more money than WN tos captains are AA's 777 captains. Each and every other captain at all the majors I listed makes less money than the topped out WN captain. Period.

 

[groundcontrol]

Not that I don't find all these stats absolutely fascinating, but what ever happened with the original topic? PTO, have you been banished from any further comments until your hearing? Have you had your hearing? I heard Robbers was in town today, did you happen to meet him? Do tell....inquiring minds want to know.... :huh:

 

[Necrophilias]

Well then in the mean time enjoy your ride down!

Oh yeah...WAY DOWN! LOL

The filthy vermin we call "SCABS" will whine to attempt justification for their exisitance just like a bus ride that has no destination.

Conclusion: SCAB comment equals mindless drivel.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Not that I don't find all these stats absolutely fascinating,...

PTO Scab Career Update:
This is excruciatingly slow going. I am also a bit out of my realm here. I always thought that the EEO was simply some federal guidelines that a company operated by. I did not know that it was a separate entity altogether, a huge one at that. It is actually the EEOC, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. I have been doing some research on it of late and found it to be a fascinating but over zealous organization. It is pending however as to weather this situation is going to be turned over to the EEOC. An exciting but intimidating circumstance, for I am in way over my head and I do realize that but I am having a hell of a time.

I must bite my tongue on the HR Q&A for now.

Believe me I know it is hard but patience groundconrol.

 

[local 12 proud]

PTO its better sometimes to be silent!

It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and resolve all doubt. ~Abraham Lincoln

 

[Nor'Easta]

I must bite my tongue

Good idea. Maybe you can bite hard enough and it will fall off! That will give you a great Scab on the tip!!

 

[TheRealSaabmeister]

PTO, in my humble opinion, you're fu*ked.

I quote from the official NWA EEO Office Discrimination & Harassment Policy & Guidelines booklet

"Policy Statement

Northwest Airlines will not tolerate any individual engaging in verbal, physical or other conduct which has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with a person's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

(in bold)Discrimination based on race, color, religion, creed, sex, national origin, age, disability or veteran status is against the law. Discrimination based on sexual orientation violates some state and local laws. Northwest airlines prohibits unlawful discrimination and harassment in the workplace including harassment based on an individual's sexual orientation."

When you, at the next management meeting, didn't let it go and asked not to work with "Ninth Ward Houstonian" with him around, you created a "intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment".

Now, regarding the "Ninth Ward Houstonian" thing, whether or not you actually made any racial comments at any point, this is the NWA section regarding Racial Harassment:

"Racial Harassment

Racial Harassment consists of unwelcome verbal, physical or other conduct of a racial charachter, or with racial connotations, which has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with a person's work performance, or which creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

Racial harassment, like sexual harassment, is a form of employee misconduct that Northwest Airlines will not tolerate. No form of unlawful harassment has any place at Northwest Airlines"

I also think this part is pretty funny...

"Employee Responsibility

Employees who belive they have experienced prohibited or unlawful harassment or discrimination in the workplace, whenever possible, should directly inform the individual that the conduct is unwelcome or improper and must stop. Employees may want to seek the assistance of a union representative, when appropriate, prior to approaching the offending individual...."

You could have gone to your shop rep and helped you potentially save your job, since you, by your own admission, "am in way over my head" and you are "also a bit out of my realm here". Shop reps know what to do, they know how to help you, since it is their realm and they've been their before. For example, your Shop Rep could have instructed you in your HR Q&A that you have the right to look over any transcripts, handwritten notes or tape recordings to ensure their accuracy, and that if you believe the above are wrong, you can sign a copy "under protest"?

Now I know that you are "confident enough in my abilities to survive any inquiry", but you have to remember that no-one expects the Northwest inquisiton! Their chief weapons are fear and surprise. In a corporation as large as NWA, the easiest, quickest and cheapest way to solve the problem is to get rid of the problem, namely you and the "Ninth Ward Houstonian". The mere fact that NWA is thinking of turning this over to the EEOC is a sign that you are getting into deeper and deeper sh*t, and you dont have the boots for it.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Northwest Airlines will not tolerate any individual engaging in verbal, physical or other conduct which has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with a person's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

😉 I am counting on this very statement. Though the situation is indeed intimidating I am prepared. Now the EEOC bit was very unexpected. I will be prepared for that also if it comes to that. I am always up for a good challenge and venturing out into the unknown.

 

[Kev3188]

PTO, in my humble opinion, you're fu*ked.

Having been involved in a few of these (as a union rep), I have to agree that if the story unfolded as you told it, the deck is definitely stacked against you, PTO.

You could have gone to your shop rep

...Except that there are no shop reps, since the AMT's are non-union now...

 

[robbedagain]

PTO: CAN YOU SAY the word FIRED!? Cause you are FIRED!

 

[jenny@nw]

PTO: CAN YOU SAY the word FIRED!? Cause you are FIRED!

Most people I know who faced q&A got fired or were told to "resign". The only person I know that didn't was good with his mouth.