Pilots at "standstill"

[flyhigh]

...as NW pilots have said, they've been flying it for years with no special arrangements. CO's pilots are happy to see their airline grow as well. The APA is going to paint itself into a corner. For each inefficiency they require, it's going to make it harder for AA to compete.

 

[Mach85ER]

...as NW pilots have said, they've been flying it for years with no special arrangements. CO's pilots are happy to see their airline grow as well. The APA is going to paint itself into a corner. For each inefficiency they require, it's going to make it harder for AA to compete.

NW pilots for years required 2 Captains and two FO's on their long haul flights. That was APA's opener when negotiating the DEL agreement recently. APA settled for less. NWA's most recent restructuring may have changed that practice.

Like CO, APA pilots are happy to see growth too. They also seem so have some real leaders in their company unlike at AA.

If you had any sense to actually read what APA would require, you might notice that the only real $$ cost items might be the rare sequence pay protection for cancellations, (SWA has that for it's pilots), and the infrequent F or B class seats for Deadheads.

I've also heard that part of SWA's hotel deals is free internet for their crews.

 

[AirLUVer]

NW pilots for years required 2 Captains and two FO's on their long haul flights. That was APA's opener when negotiating the DEL agreement recently. APA settled for less. NWA's most recent restructuring may have changed that practice.

Like CO, APA pilots are happy to see growth too. They also seem so have some real leaders in their company unlike at AA.

If you had any sense to actually read what APA would require, you might notice that the only real $$ cost items might be the rare sequence pay protection for cancellations, (SWA has that for it's pilots), and the infrequent F or B class seats for Deadheads.

I've also heard that part of SWA's hotel deals is free internet for their crews.

Free internet for a completely domestic airline is a heck of a lot cheaper than an international carrier. Very few hotels in the US now do not offer free wifi or hispeed dsl access. Heck Motel 6 offers free internet at many of their establishments.

I think that for DH priority, First and Business class seats should be prioritized in order of seniority.

As for pay starting at sign in. If a pilot is late for sign in will the pay be adjusted for when he/she actually shows up at the airport and signs in. With the increased cost of paying for preflight, the company will probably negotiate a decreased the per hour pay by x amount, which will take into consideration ATC delays, weather and mechanical delays. This would mean the pilot on an average sequence without any delays will make less money.

 

[AAviator]

I think that for DH priority, First and Business class seats should be prioritized in order of seniority.

I don't. The typical pilot gets hired at a later age than your typical F/A. Pilots are forced to retire at age 60. On an international flight, the chances of the F/A's having more L.O.S. than the pilots is very real and quite common.

You'd also have to take into consideration the Art Tangs of the world who fly part time.

 

[eolesen]

I don't. The typical pilot gets hired at a later age than your typical F/A. Pilots are forced to retire at age 60. On an international flight, the chances of the F/A's having more L.O.S. than the pilots is very real and quite common.

You'd also have to take into consideration the Art Tangs of the world who fly part time.

Aside from your example of pilots possibly being at a seniority disadvantage, why pray tell is their arse more deserving of the business class or first class seat than another working crew member?

 

[flyboymd8]

Aside from your example of pilots possibly being at a seniority disadvantage, why pray tell is their arse more deserving of the business class or first class seat than another working crew member?

You clearly don't have a grasp on what pilots do and why BC or FC for deadheading is important. Let me give you a personal example.
I'm furloughed and with another airline right now, but this applies across the board. Last year, I was on reserve in LA, and was called out to DH to Hong Kong via Tipei. Total time of DH in coach, 22 hrs, got to HK, give block to block 10 hrs rest and fly out that night back to the States. Having gotten stuck in coach, I couldn't get any restful sleep, and when I got to HK, it was late morning going into the afternoon. Try to get to bed, but only got around 6 hrs of sleep, body clock was totally messed up. Then had to delay the flight by 4 hrs so I could get the rest I needed. Finally we left around 4 hours late and I still felt tired on the flight back to the States. This is a typical example of international ops and hence the importance of the BC or FC seat, even if you have a rest period coming at your destination. Now, not to sound mean, who do you want to be well rested, the flt attendant who is going to serve the drinks in the back or the pilots who need to be alert to fly the aircraft, especially in international operations? Senority should have nothing to do with it, it should be strictly by rank on DHing.

 

[FA Mikey]

You clearly don't have a grasp on what pilots do and why BC or FC for deadheading is important. Let me give you a personal example.
I'm furloughed and with another airline right now, but this applies across the board. Last year, I was on reserve in LA, and was called out to DH to Hong Kong via Tipei. Total time of DH in coach, 22 hrs, got to HK, give block to block 10 hrs rest and fly out that night back to the States. Having gotten stuck in coach, I couldn't get any restful sleep, and when I got to HK, it was late morning going into the afternoon. Try to get to bed, but only got around 6 hrs of sleep, body clock was totally messed up. Then had to delay the flight by 4 hrs so I could get the rest I needed. Finally we left around 4 hours late and I still felt tired on the flight back to the States. This is a typical example of international ops and hence the importance of the BC or FC seat, even if you have a rest period coming at your destination. Now, not to sound mean, who do you want to be well rested, the flt attendant who is going to serve the drinks in the back or the pilots who need to be alert to fly the aircraft, especially in international operations? Senority should have nothing to do with it, it should be strictly by rank on DHing.

Seniority or position should have nothing to do with it. Not to sound mean but how many of the hours are you flying and how many are the computer? Don't you also get a rest period in-flight 2 maybe 3 hours paid to sleep as well?

Pilots and flight attendants both whine on how there rest is insufficient and safety is being compromised. Interesting enough almost all the complaining is from people who bid those lines to begin with.

 

[flyboymd8]

Seniority or position should have nothing to do with it. Not to sound mean but how many of the hours are you flying and how many are the computer? Don't you also get a rest period in-flight 2 maybe 3 hours paid to sleep as well?

Pilots and flight attendants both whine on how there rest is insufficient and safety is being compromised. Interesting enough almost all the complaining is from people who bid those lines to begin with.

Mike,
Many such as yourself comment on who is doing the flying the computer or the pilot. That really shows that you lack understanding of what pilots do. The computer may be doing the flying but it's garbage in garbage out, someone has to enter the information, continually enter updated information, and monitor it's progress. Furthermore, in international ops, there are position reports because there is no radar to monitor progress, on the northatlantic for example the aircraft are 1000 ft apart vertically, and horizontally if we are 3 minutes off, it's a big mistake. In other areas of the world, China, Russia for example, the ATC facilities are limited at best, so you have to be on your A game all the time to ensure you don't do anything wrong, not so someone will yell at you, but you can get people killed if you screw up and misinterpret what ATC is saying.
As for the rest while in flight, that is there for the public's protection, again these are federal regulations that limit a pilot's flight deck duty to 8 hrs in a 2 pilot crewed aircraft, that is why there are 3 pilots, sometimes even 4 on longer flights. Again, it should be strictly rank based when it comes to DH for duty.

 

[FA Mikey]

I do in fact understand. I am aware that someone must monitor the radio and input changes, as needed.

I think every employee should have a break in an 8 hour shift. I don't think that you should ever displace a paying customer in a premium seat the day before you go to work, or even following a flight.

Your rank based idea shows how some pilots are narrow minded self absorbed primma donna's.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Gotta laugh when they require a F/C seat for rest in order to be at their "A" game, but I do wonder how you guys feel about those who actually program and fix the equipment to make your life 1000 times easier must work double(16.5 hours), double, single shifts, in order to clear up 4 days for the second and third jobs that are necessary to survive. That is the standard these days in line maintenance with a mere 2-3 hours of sleep 2 days in a row and between gate calls, or checks, you get to sit back in a worn out seat that was taken out of the garbage from another department just so we could have something to sit on. Sure be nice if they put some first class seats in the break room.

 

[IORFA]

Don't waste your time trying to be "rational" with the pilots on here. They don't get it. Never will either. Save your breath. For far too long airlines put them on a pedastal(sic) and now that reality has struck them, they refuse to see the light. Problem is they just don't like being treated like everyone else.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Don't waste your time trying to be "rational" with the pilots on here. They don't get it. Never will either. Save your breath. For far too long airlines put them on a pedastal(sic) and now that reality has struck them, they refuse to see the light. Problem is they just don't like being treated like everyone else.

Our jumpseat is CONTRACTUAL! It states that flight attendants can occupy it. Pilots can't occupy our jumpseat now or ever! Ralph Hunter wants AA to get the APFA to give it up so they can have it too. Sorry, Ralphie boy...NO MORE CONCESSIONS from US!

If you want to voice your opinion to APA (Allied Pilots Association) President Ralph Hunter, please email him at rhunter@alliedpilots.org

I would never give up our jumpseat so the pilots can have their way. I would rather see the pilots shoot themselves in the foot with AA and lose the PEK route!

 

[AAviator]

...as NW pilots have said, they've been flying it for years with no special arrangements. CO's pilots are happy to see their airline grow as well. The APA is going to paint itself into a corner. For each inefficiency they require, it's going to make it harder for AA to compete.

Yep, 2 airlines whose pilots sit on unoccupied F/A jumpseats.

The growth for AA isn't there. The 777's used will be pulled from other routes, mainly EZE. We're still parking aircraft.

So lemme guess,... its the pilots fault, right?

 

[IORFA]

Feel free to take some blame for anything, that would be a role reversal from most pilots.

 

[AAStew]

I have no problem with pilots getting the junpseat after f/a's are seated. I don't like the way they went about requesting it. It need to go to section 6 negotiations. But worse than that is the deadheading priority that they requested. Their sense of entitlement and being above other employees amazes me.
With the jumpseat, I hope if they ever do get it, they will take it and give up a regular seat to nonrevs who may not be accomodated, just as the flight attendants do.