Should fliers be worried about a strike at AA?

[FWAAA]

FAMikey, you are no longer worth of reasonable thinking. Look at any press release or AMR balance sheet and you will see the numbers on AA and their labor costs. Its not rocket science for most. I guess you will see for yourself, and if you respond please make it worthy of my eyes, I am tired of bieng dissapointed by your flames and redundance.. Its sickening.

You really should look at the AMR financials yourself before spouting off like a fool.

A 3% raise in wage expense would equal about $200 million more than AMR will spend this year.

Given that AMR has already earned almost $500 million of profit in the first two quarters alone, a 3% raise would not place AMR in the red, contrary to your uninformed assertions.

AMR will likely earn $1.0 billion or more this year. AMR could easily afford a 3% raise.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

You really should look at the AMR financials yourself before spouting off like a fool.

A 3% raise in wage expense would equal about $200 million more than AMR will spend this year.

Given that AMR has already earned almost $500 million of profit in the first two quarters alone, a 3% raise would not place AMR in the red, contrary to your uninformed assertions.

AMR will likely earn $1.0 billion or more this year. AMR could easily afford a 3% raise.

Thanks for the numbers, FWAAA, though I expect it to fall in deaf ears. "It" spouts off with false facts and opinions without any regard for reality. "It" cannot even get its airline history correct, continually referring to 1983, when, in fact, we went on strike in 1993.

 

[Bob Owens]

The argument that the President "will not allow a strike" is utter crap. The President can only DELAY a strike, not prevent one. The following will clearly demonstrate the steps in the process:

NMB website

Look at what is says on the bottom of the page:
Note-this is a synopsis of the applicable proceedures; refer to the RLA itself for exact guidance.

Plus, show me where the RLA says a BK Judge can impose a new contract and order the workers not to strike.

The fact is it doesnt. The courts make up laws as they go in order to keep corporations happy. If we want justice we must defy the courts because we will not get it there.

 

[Bob Owens]

To which questions can I not answer? So this brilliant chaos, which is used by no one other than the bankrupt AFA is some how better?

Actually CHAOS is very effective and has been a practice for many many years, the AFA simply gave it a name. Whenever people "work to rule" its basically CHAOS.

Actually you can be terminated for calling in sick when you are not sick.

Define sick. We are in such safety sensitive jobs and our performance is considered so critical by the government that they actually passed a law that violates our civil liberties and right of privacy. For no reason whatsover, they can extract and confiscate our bodily fluids to analize them for the presence of certain chemicals. Even trace amounts that would indicate past usage but not impairment at work are enough to allow legal action against airline workers. Clearly the standard of fitness for an airline worker is 100% and anyone not meeting that standard is unfit for work, so even if the person is mentally distressed or is taking medication for allergies or pain he/she is considered ill as far as working on or operating aircraft. Judgement, as well as responsibility for performance, is left to the individual.

well tell that to the UAW, this is news to everyone then.

News Flash...... The RLA does not apply to the UAW and the automotive industry.

The AA flight attendants went on a strike and AA didn't go bankrupt and APFA didn't go bankrupt.

They did not go on an illegal strike. The only reason why the APFA was allowed to go on strike is because Crandal made a huge miscalculation and did not call in any political favors in order to delay, delay, delay.

Another note concerning the RLA and what a farce it is. A few years back the Mechs at NWA were demanding a 50% raise but the corrput NMB told the union that they would never release them to self help if they did not lower their demands. AMFA reasoned that with all the productivity increases and inflation the 50% was warranted, only restoring their buying power to what it once was, but the NMB didnt care. However a few years later when the company wanted to cut their pay by 50% and eliminate 50% of the workforce the NMB released them to self help without any delay. Their neat little chart hides a lot of details about how the RLA is put into practice.

The fact is that the government always makes a profit off this industry. They are not a neutral body, they are a silent partner and they will always help the airlines screw us as long as we stay committed to staying within the law as they interptret and spin it. All you have to do is study the history of this industry since PATCO and see how they have applied the RLA and BK law. Adding powers that the law did not grant whenever labor was in a position to capitalize and make gains. The government and industry saw how weak the unions were and have capitalized on it ever since. What do you think leaders like Hoffa, Quill ect would have done? We must be prepared to resort to what the government has labeled "illegal" in order to get what is "just". Breaking the law is what got workers what they needed, breaking the law is how unjust laws are changed or "reinterpreted". If Rosa Parks hadnt broken the law African-Americans would still be required to sit in the back of the bus.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

You really should look at the AMR financials yourself before spouting off like a fool.

A 3% raise in wage expense would equal about $200 million more than AMR will spend this year.

Given that AMR has already earned almost $500 million of profit in the first two quarters alone, a 3% raise would not place AMR in the red, contrary to your uninformed assertions.

AMR will likely earn $1.0 billion or more this year. AMR could easily afford a 3% raise.

First before I get into this, are you saying that a 3% wage increase for flight attendants, Pilots, and mechanics would be only 200million??? And is this including work rules or just hard pay? Because I am talking about a 3% increase per work group... So let me correct this so you dont get confused........ If you are talking an increase for entire workforce, at a 9-10% across the board would definitely put them in the red... But if you are talking just on an individual workgroup basis, there won't even be a 3% increase if the pilots get what they want.. Pardon the confusion folks...

 

[StraaightTaalk]

First before I get into this, are you saying that a 3% wage increase for flight attendants, Pilots, and mechanics would be only 200million??? Because I am talking about a 3% increase per work group... which equals a 9% across the board increase and a 3% respective work group increase.

"It" just can't help itself, can it?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Actually CHAOS is very effective and has been a practice for many many years, the AFA simply gave it a name. Whenever people "work to rule" its basically CHAOS.

CHAOS, though, has never been particularly successful at AFA. Perhaps "work-to-rule" has worked elsewhere, but it has not worked for AFA.

When WE walked off the job, WE ALL walked (except for a few...). There was a great deal of strength in that unity.

Delegating the responsibility to strike to a few members effectively absolves the rest of the group from doing anything to secure a contract.

 

[Bob Owens]

First before I get into this, are you saying that a 3% wage increase for flight attendants, Pilots, and mechanics would be only 200million??? Because I am talking about a 3% increase per work group... which equals a 9% across the board increase and a 3% respective work group increase.

Better check your math. If FAs were a third of total labor costs and they alone got a three percent increase then you would divide the percentage raise by percent of the workforce 3/3=1, not multiply it.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

"It" just can't help itself, can it?

No StrAaight IT can't - maybe you would like to put in your 2 cents.. or your numbers - I know I am right, so you don't have to tell me... If you don't figure it out now you will soon.. Looks like the toolshed was left open.

 

[FA Mikey]

Actually CHAOS is very effective and has been a practice for many many years, the AFA simply gave it a name.

How about some examples? If it is so effective why only one union using this effective system?

Whenever people "work to rule" its basically CHAOS.

In your eyes,possibly. What chaos is defined by the AFA is a strike. Not a work to rule, but then you knew that already.

Define sick.

Not being ill

We are in such safety sensitive jobs and our performance is considered so critical by the government that they actually passed a law that violates our civil liberties and right of privacy. For no reason what so ever they have decided that they can forcibly extract and conficate our bodily fluids to analize them for the presence of certain chemicals. Even trace amounts that would show usage but not impairment are enough to allow legal action against airline workers. Clearly the standard of fitness for an airline worker is 100% and anyone not meeting that standard is unfit for work, so even if the person is mentally distressed he is considered ill as far as working or operating aircraft. Judgment, as well as responsibility for performance, is left to the individual.

so that diatribe is the justification calling in sick to punish the company?

News Flash...... The RLA does not apply to the UAW and the automotive industry.

So what Bob, what does that have to do with anything. My post was about the fact that no other union use's this so called effective tool.

They did not go on an illegal strike. The only reason why the APFA was allowed to go on strike is because Crandal made a huge miscalculation and did not call in any political favors in order to delay, delay, delay.

Besides you who else said the APFA strike was illegal?

Another note concerning the RLA

What does anything I said have to do with the RLA and Rosa Parks

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Bob, they have a very hard time facing facts... It sure is fun watching that hamster wheel turn and seeing what it spits out though...

 

[FA Mikey]

First before I get into this, are you saying that a 3% wage increase for flight attendants, Pilots, and mechanics would be only 200million??? Because I am talking about a 3% increase per work group... which equals a 9% across the board increase and a 3% respective work group increase.

OMG! Wow, amazing! words nearly escape me.

 

[Bob Owens]

CHAOS, though, has never been particularly successful at AFA. Perhaps "work-to-rule" has worked elsewhere, but it has not worked for AFA.

When WE walked off the job, WE ALL walked (except for a few...). There was a great deal of strength in that unity.

Delegating the responsibility to strike to a few members effectively absolves the rest of the group from doing anything to secure a contract.

I agree that the APFA did a great job in 93 but like I said they were only given the opportunity because Crandall screwed up.

CHAOS requires the same amount of solidarity as a strike in order to be effective.

I also agree that a strike is more effective than CHAOS but the NMB and the courts do a good job at preventing strikes and if they dont the President can intervene, like Clinton did with the pilots in 97 and if that doesnt work Congress can impose a contract. The cards are stacked heavily against us and none of the unions in place can hope to level the playing field. Thats why we need to consolidate into fewer bigger unions instead of many weak ones.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

OMG! Wow, amazing! words nearly escape me.

They should FAMikey, your profits so far have been almost 430 million lucky to hit 800 for the year, the pilots are asking for a 30% increase - so i guess you'll be working for pennies... Don't forget you have 3 negotiations going on not just one... Take your percentage times 3 --- its simple,, AMR absolutely cannot increase wages more than 9-10% or they will be in the RED... That is for all work groups combined... You figure it out since your so intelligent.. Oh I forgot, you didn't take advance above algebra. Good thing you don't need it for simple logisitics like this. . . . ROTFLMAO WAKE UP SLEEPY HEADS, TIME TO GO HOME PARTIES OVER!!!

 

[FA Mikey]

They should FAMikey, your profits so far have been almost 430 million lucky to hit 800 for the year, the pilots are asking for a 30% increase - so i guess you'll be working for pennies... Don't forget you have 3 negotiations going on not just one... Take your percentage times 3 --- its simple,, AMR absolutely cannot increase wages more than 9-10% or they will be in the RED... That is for all work groups combined... You figure it out since your so intelligent.. Oh I forgot, you didn't take advance above algebra. Good thing you don't need it for simple logisitics like this. . . . ROTFLMAO WAKE UP SLEEPY HEADS, TIME TO GO HOME PARTIES OVER!!!

I am speechless for a few seconds after all your posts. But you and math, not the best of friends. How 3% across the board magically becomes 9% was just astounding.

plus your insights into AA finance's. As well as your predictions of this years profits. Is this all based on what? Whatever you pull out of your, whatever?