Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

 You voted for the Nic. Best of luck funding your own LLC after USCABA is thrown out like an aborted fetus.

Really? US Airways management didn't see it that way.
 
 
 
 
204. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix-based

pilots , US Airways stated as follows:

This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed pursuant

to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining

Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by the

Company. In that protest, you contend that the Company is obligated to

implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MTA/MOU becomes

effective. That contention is meritless, and your protest must be denied.

Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining

Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority

relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority list.

Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will be

created after there has been a merger and the federally-required

McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are

beyond the scope of Section 22.C.

Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes regarding

the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claim that the

MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the

Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the

express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII) that any

of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified by written

agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties collectively."

By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between USAPA

and the Company which modifies the provisions of the Transition

Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated seniority list.

Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways agrees that

neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for

changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways other than

through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The Paragraph 10

process provides for seniority-list integration in accordance with the

standards and procedures of the federal McCaskill-Bond law, and that

process will not even begin until after the merger has been

consummated. Modifying the seniority lists immediately, as you have

requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.

 

[Claxon]

Think of the bright side west pilots.  APA and USAPA will agree on a list with fences. 
 
This means you will get to keep what you brought to the mergers, the PHX base. 
 
Well at least the three years for a hub that the company and DOJ agreed upon.

 

[Phoenix]

I was told by scumanski...MY LAWYER that the MOU was entirely neutral regarding the Nic. Now he claims we waives our rights to a fair process. Why didn't he take the stand do you think?
You pieces of schit have earned every bit of the misery that has been dumped on you. More to come as well. It's called "Karma".

You didn't answer the questions...
"Nullity"?
Numbers senior to yourself?

 

[Pi brat]

You really love to qoute that, but it's always taken out of context. Yes, you can present any list, but presenting anything other than the Nic puts you on dangerous ground. You guys just don't seem to understand that is why the Nic is really not dead. You can't erase the fact that it happened. You can go in presenting DOH or something really crazy like fencing off the west (major failure to represent), but it will just be another mess.

As for the company withdrawing the appeal. They are not taking sides, so i don't think it's a surprise. There is now a set path to combining seniority, contrary to what you think, that's what they've wanted all along. It was Usapa that has been preventing a combined list and contract, not management. They've just been taking advantage of the cheap labor.

Bean

What seems to be lost on the west is that there in not going to be any combining of east and west list prior to combining with AA. Go read Pauley's testimony and the MOU.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Separate ops was the result of not reaching a ratification vote on the JCBA between USAPA and LCC. It was also an arrangement which benefited the company. The situation has obviously changed. Separate ops will come to an end at the effective date, it is a company decision. In the event that Silver rules in favor of the plaintiffs, and the union files an appeal with the 9th, the timeline will definitely conflict with the MOU timeline. The appeal after Addington I took 15 months. The MOU timeline calls for a seniority integration protocol to be in place within 30 days of the effective date and direct negotiations between USAPA and APA immediately thereafter.

Is it possible that USAPA will begin negotiating using the Nic pending an answer from the 9th? Will USAPA attempt to delay negotiations instead, until the 9th rules? Do they have the authority to do so considering the stipulations within the MOU and POR?

Unless we are surprised with a favorable ruling from Silver, the two timelines don't match and something has to give.

Any serious opinions?

 

[Piedmont1984]

What seems to be lost on the west is that there in not going to be any combining of east and west list prior to combining with AA. Go read Pauley's testimony and the MOU.

Lost on me too, but I'll go back and read his testimony again. The APA seems to have a different opinion judging from their latest update.

 

[EastUS1]

Lost on me too, but I'll go back and read his testimony again. The APA seems to have a different opinion judging from their latest update.

 
This is the latest I've seen from the APA site. It seems that only the timing of events is presently considered though:
 
Seniority Integration
Within 30 days or so of the Effective Date, APA and USAPA will negotiate a seniority integration protocol agreement with management. After the protocol agreement is reached, we will begin direct seniority integration negotiations with USAPA. These negotiations will take place over a 90-day period. If no agreement is reached within 90 days of the Effective Date, a panel of three arbitrators will be designated. However, the seniority list arbitration cannot commence until the JCBA is either negotiated or an arbitration is completed. The seniority integration arbitration panel will render its award no more than six months after the JCBA negotiations have been completed or after commencement of the McCaskill-Bond interest arbitration. The final deadline for the seniority arbitration award will be no more than 24 months after the Effective Date.

 

[Pi brat]

Lost on me too, but I'll go back and read his testimony again. The APA seems to have a different opinion judging from their latest update.

2 lists(status quo-lists currently in effect) with USAPA doing the negotiating.

 

[Claxon]

The seniority protocol has been agreed upon since early in the talks with doug, APA and USAPA.  American Pilots are not stupid enough to go to arbitration.  It will be at least a few years until any of the pilot groups fly with the other in a cockpit.

 

[Claxon]

Separate ops was the result of not reaching a ratification vote on the JCBA between USAPA and LCC. It was also an arrangement which benefited the company. The situation has obviously changed. Separate ops will come to an end at the effective date, it is a company decision. In the event that Silver rules in favor of the plaintiffs, and the union files an appeal with the 9th, the timeline will definitely conflict with the MOU timeline. The appeal after Addington I took 15 months. The MOU timeline calls for a seniority integration protocol to be in place within 30 days of the effective date and direct negotiations between USAPA and APA immediately thereafter.

Is it possible that USAPA will begin negotiating using the Nic pending an answer from the 9th? Will USAPA attempt to delay negotiations instead, until the 9th rules? Do they have the authority to do so considering the stipulations within the MOU and POR?

Unless we are surprised with a favorable ruling from Silver, the two timelines don't match and something has to give.

Any serious opinions?

alpa shill.  You would lose in a leap frog game because you are always bent over.

 

[Res Judicata]

You didn't answer the questions...
"Nullity"?
Numbers senior to yourself?

Call Silver, tell her she should have dismissed based on one word in an intentionally vague document. Once again, a desert judge doesn't see it your way. I never worked for your bk pos carrier btw. You can stop asking.

 

[traderjake]

alpa shill.  You would lose in a leap frog game because you are always bent over.

 
What a twisted little pscho you are, I hope for the sake of public safety you stay out on your medical (or locked in your Mom's basement).

 

[Res Judicata]

2 lists(status quo-lists currently in effect) with USAPA doing the negotiating.

USAPA couldn't negotiate a fking crew meal. Fact. The ball is being stripped from you scabs. Another fact.

 

[traderjake]

 
It will be slotted, but it won't be even cose to the Nicolau fiasco.  There will be no westhole pilot 1400 numbers senior to himself.  Bet on it.

 
I'll bet you the final outcome is "coser" to the NIC than it is to LOS.   

 

[traderjake]

USAPA couldn't negotiate a fking crew meal.

 
They did say "Seniority is like crew meals".