Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Josh,
 
Here's a sensitive topic... what leverage does Fleet have, in general?  Pilots or FA's refusing to fly would shutdown an airline, and sure, if Fleet wasn't to work, it would cause a disruption, but I am always amazed on the number of people I meet who once worked the ramp but for whatever reason they left the airline business.  My point being is that replacing Fleet workers doesn't seem like a daunting challenge, even mechanics were replaced after striking at NWA, and they require considerably greater amounts of skill and certifications.
 
As much as I don't want to give the IAM any credit for the CBA presented to UA FSAs, I don't know what leverage was available otherwise.  As I said before, I am "happy enough" with the existing CBA and will use the greatest tool available to any bad deal being presented... the ability to say, "No."
 
Everyone speaks about some leverage of SOC, but the Company did reasonably well with two pilot groups and aircraft which never fully integrated even after 5 years. 

I think the company did have a problem with the pilot groups being separate.  The arbitration decision stood in the way and it wasn't so much that the company didn't want to bring them together, but rather the civil war between the pilot groups kept the company from signing an agreement and risking a major lawsuit.  The thing was a real mess.  Not sure how much the company recoups with a AFA agreement if the pilots still had separate metals, etc.
 
IMO, the company had so much of a problem with two separate pilot groups that the only way it could proceed was with another merger to get out of the mess.  So I'll disagree with ya.  Regarding UA, management eventually took leverage away from the IAM by slow death of manipulating the very stupid IAM leaders.  Hoodwinking Delaney and Roach into the promises of management that they would sign on to 'expedited talks' and offer more to the members, if the IAM joined hands with management and opted out of section 6.  All along suckering the stupid IAM leadership with "Dues bait".
 
Once in joint talks, management suckered the stupid and unsuspecting IAM eboard to waive off the 'metal' and allow a co-op where true seamlessness can happen.  sCO could do sUA metal, etc.  Even though the pilots didn't agree to it,  at least on the ground, the company had the cross fleeting that gave it the seamlessness it imagined in its dreams without having to offer any commitment to the 30,000 IAM members. Management wasn't so lucky with the stews and the MX.  Those two unions demanded payment for their members BEFORE agreeing to joint talks.  The MX got the no layoffs for all mx and a 12% pay hike along with more license pay and kept its health care, as payment to enter into joint talks.  Same with the stews who got a 17% wage hike to enter Joint talks.   Again, the IAM didn't get squat as it chased dues and put its own interest ahead of its members.
 
By the time joint talks happened, the IAM had given up much of its leverage. Just really stupid S.  This is where intelligence levels and education comes in to play [see post above].   Then when the TA came, Sito, Delaney, and the stupid eboard bought the management hoodwinking that it had no intention of downgrading full timers to part time, etc.  Again, really really stupid crap.  It reduced the IAM 141 eboard to staying stupid or being intellectually dishonest.
 
This is where the IAM141 eboard is at now.  Although I am greatly disappointed, it has also made me a skeptic moving forward of this regime.  The current 'crop' at US AIRWAYS is saying all the right thiings but so did the UA negotiating committee.  We have seen this before.   Not saying I'm right, but I'd be wrong to trust those who still can't admit that the United contract blows.  Heck, they avoid it altogether and claim they haven't even read it.  I bet AH has read it and can quote it.  Difficult situation indeed.
 
At any rate, nobody is claiming that fleet will have to walk out when other options remain viable.  Walking out would be a complete breakdown in things and present a much more difficult position than what  otherwise may be available.
 
Speaking of leverage, one thing I hope that doesn't happen is that the MX doesn't use fleet as leverage. 
 
But, fleet has some natural leverage that should produce upward mobility because it is so much underpaid and still operating under a terrible contract. No shift differ, restrictive OT rules, less holidays, no longevity, minimal vacations, half sick pay, and just barely $20 top out should mean that any NC should be able to get plenty more.    OTOH, if fleet was making what Southwest made then our leverage would be less.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Folks I hope this is the year of the contract. Happy New Year all.

Harry.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Folks I hope this is the year of the contract. Happy New Year all.

Harry.

I think it has a decent chance, Harry. Thank you.  Any contract prior to joint talks should be at least a 3 or 4 year contract since joint talks may take years. I think this merger has a great opportunity to be a win win for management and labor, and offer security for both active, and retirees.  I hope your family is doing well HC, been a while since I seen ya.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I think it has a decent chance, Harry. Thank you.  Any contract prior to joint talks should be at least a 3 or 4 year contract since joint talks may take years. I think this merger has a great opportunity to be a win win for management and labor, and offer security for both active, and retirees.  I hope your family is doing well HC, been a while since I seen ya.

Tim:
Give me a heads up if you're ever around & have time to leave the airport. Would love to see you. Happy New Year.
Harry.

 

[rockit2]

I think it has a decent chance, Harry. Thank you.  Any contract prior to joint talks should be at least a 3 or 4 year contract since joint talks may take years. I think this merger has a great opportunity to be a win win for management and labor, and offer security for both active, and retirees.  I hope your family is doing well HC, been a while since I seen ya.

Mr. Nelson,
Who is on our NC? AS A DUES PAYING MEMBER, I would like to know who they are, their position at Airways and what are their position in the union?

 

[700UW]

You mean after almost three years you dont know?
 
Its all on the District web page.
 
http://www.iam141.org/us/index.html

 

[cltrat]

I guess it was too tough to answer the person's question with a link and not add the condescending remark?

said remarks does nothing for solidarity and just adds to apathy. just my 02

 

[rockit2]

You mean after almost three years you dont know?
 
Its all on the District web page.
 
http://www.iam141.org/us/index.html

OK Cool Roy,
Where is it located? The only thing listed is the agc's

 

[P. REZ]

Mr. Nelson,
Who is on our NC? AS A DUES PAYING MEMBER, I would like to know who they are, their position at Airways and what are their position in the union?

Rockit2,
 
Steve Miller        BOS Trustee 141
Ricky O'Barr      MCO
Frank Giannola  LGA
Mark Baskett     CLT VP 141
Rodney Walker  BDL
Steve Willis        LAS
George Austin   PHL
Pat Rezler         PHX AGC 141 
Mike Fairbanks  CLT AGC 141
Frank O'Donnell PHL AGC 141

 

[rockit2]

Rockit2,
 
Steve Miller        BOS Trustee 141
Ricky O'Barr      MCO
Frank Giannola  LGA
Mark Baskett     CLT VP 141
Rodney Walker  BDL
Steve Willis        LAS
George Austin   PHL
Pat Rezler         PHX AGC 141 
Mike Fairbanks  CLT AGC 141
Frank O'Donnell PHL AGC 141

Thanks Pat

 

[psa8979]

Good mix of USA, PIA, and AMW Union Brothers. Sad that there is no representation from the original LCC PSA . We had  the best CBA in the industry until mergers and de-certification of Union in 1991. 

 

[mike33]

Good mix of USA, PIA, and AMW Union Brothers. Sad that there is no representation from the original LCC PSA . We had  the best CBA in the industry until mergers and de-certification of Union in 1991. 

Yes we did......by a long shot! ...i loved having my Birthday off

 

[ograc]

Rockit2,
 
Steve Miller        BOS Trustee 141
Ricky O'Barr      MCO
Frank Giannola  LGA
Mark Baskett     CLT VP 141
Rodney Walker  BDL
Steve Willis        LAS
George Austin   PHL
Pat Rezler         PHX AGC 141 
Mike Fairbanks  CLT AGC 141
Frank O'Donnell PHL AGC 141

P. REZ,
Some observations regarding the make up of the NC:
1.) 5 of the 10 committee members making up the NC are on the District payroll.  
2.) Of the 10 members making up the NC none are from a small outline station.
3.) 5 of the 10 committee members are from Hub Stations.
4.) The remainder are from "focus" or medium stations.
5.) Not sure how many have had previous NC experience.
Many I am familiar and comfortable with; and confident will serve the best interests of the entire membership. Including the importance of scope language that protects work in outline stations.This, despite the fact, there is no representation on the NC from a small outline station. Others; I do not know well enough to form an opinion. Two members I have no confidence in whatsoever. One IMO... has failed miserably in his obligations, to the members he serves, as an elected AGC for the past 2 years. The other serves, based on his current local position, in a major northeastern hub. Strictly a numbers game by the district IMO.

 

[Tim Nelson]

P. REZ,
Some observations regarding the make up of the NC:
1.) 5 of the 10 committee members making up the NC are on the District payroll.  
2.) Of the 10 members making up the NC none are from a small outline station.
3.) 5 of the 10 committee members are from Hub Stations.
4.) The remainder are from "focus" or medium stations.
5.) Not sure how many have had previous NC experience.
Many I am familiar and comfortable with; and confident will serve the best interests of the entire membership. Including the importance of scope language that protects work in outline stations.This, despite the fact, there is no representation on the NC from a small outline station. Others; I do not know well enough to form an opinion. Two members I have no confidence in whatsoever. One IMO... has failed miserably in his obligations, to the members he serves, as an elected AGC for the past 2 years. The other serves, based on his current local position, in a major northeastern hub. Strictly a numbers game by the district IMO.

Rodney is from BDL, that's a small station.
 
Most NC have decent fellas.  But the leadership sets them up to fail by bringing in the "Top People", i.e., Attorneys, Advisors, etc., who talk over their ignorance on matters [not saying their IQ is low] and gets the manufactured consent that Delaney needs. I spoke to one NC member from the United NC team and text him "How could you??".  He immediately called me and told me that he wasn't aware of most of the things in the contract and was told that congress would impose something worse, and that the company had no immediate plans to contract out.  He said the leadership didn't trust the members and felt that maybe the members might be prepared to fight in 3 years.  
 
He is a good guy but wasn't properly informed and felt intimidated to ask the "Top People" any questions.  As he said, "Who was I to ask questions from someone with a CPA or law degree."  
 
I've seen it with most negotiators other than maybe the one lone exception was Joe Maccarone.  Joe could sniff out the bs of the 'experts' . Miklavic was probably the second best. Since then it's been all down hill. In fact, imo, there hasn't been negotiations at United or US AIRWAYS in quite some time.  Basically, the NC ask the company for things, the company says no, then after a few circles and time a TA comes together that resembles something non union or something that probably would have been received anyways.

 

[ograc]

Rodney is from BDL, that's a small station.
 
Most NC have decent fellas.  But the leadership sets them up to fail by bringing in the "Top People", i.e., Attorneys, Advisors, etc., who talk over their ignorance on matters [not saying their IQ is low] and gets the manufactured consent that Delaney needs. I spoke to one NC member from the United NC team and text him "How could you??".  He immediately called me and told me that he wasn't aware of most of the things in the contract and was told that congress would impose something worse, and that the company had no immediate plans to contract out.  He said the leadership didn't trust the members and felt that maybe the members might be prepared to fight in 3 years.  
 
He is a good guy but wasn't properly informed and felt intimidated to ask the "Top People" any questions.  As he said, "Who was I to ask questions from someone with a CPA or law degree."  
 
I've seen it with most negotiators other than maybe the one lone exception was Joe Maccarone.  Joe could sniff out the bs of the 'experts' . Miklavic was probably the second best. Since then it's been all down hill.

Tim,
I've been involved long enough to know; that is exactly how it goes down. Historically, the message is sent by the District through legal advisors, the NC feels intimidated and nods in agreement. With the make up of the NC, coming from hub or large stations, they endorse the TA and sell it to the members and the rest is history. This is the reason why the NC is made up of members from large or hub stations. With their endorsement... huge numbers ratify a sub par TA. In the end... a contract with all kinds of gray language and agreement to the loss of work and jobs. Hell, in my station, the day after the former CO and UA members were issued their retro checks, the company announced furloughs above wing and below. This strategy, which was why Canale was voted out, remains with the currently elected leadership team. All one has to do is look at the UA TA and it's eventual ratification. If our current NC believes they can change the course; they better be ready to "grow a set" like Maccarone and Miklavic. I do not believe the current strategy by the district represents the "true intent" of union representation. I wish the current NC the best but as I see it... they are fighting a battle on two fronts.