Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[high*flyer]

"USAPA couldn't negotiate a crew meal"...

Cold eggs or fair integration of seniority...I'd say USAPA has done pretty well with what they had to work with.

 

[Piedmont1984]

2 lists(status quo-lists currently in effect) with USAPA doing the negotiating.

I understand that. My question is - what if we lose AddingtonII and begin the appeal process? The timeline takes us far beyond the 30 day protocol + 90 day negotiating period stipulated in the MOU. Is M/B delayed while we wait for an answer from the 9th? Will DP and the BK judge and the UCC be okay with waiting while we sort this out?

 

[EastUS1]

 Will DP and the BK judge and the UCC be okay with waiting while we sort this out?

 
Who reasonably cares what they'd be okay with? Since when is fretting over such any employee group's proper concern?

 

[Piedmont1984]

alpa shill.  You would lose in a leap frog game because you are always bent over.

I hope you never held office before Claxon. If you did I hope I never voted for you. If I did then I sincerely regret my decision. BTW, thanks to a small group of wankers, we are all bent over due to an injunction.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Who reasonably cares what they'd be okay with?

That's my point. Do we (USAPA) have the authority to say 'hold up boys while we sort this appeal out'? What is the legal mechanism to be employed? What stops the company from integrating ops on the effective date? Another lawsuit, injunction, LOA, MOU?

I'm asking here.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Who reasonably cares what they'd be okay with? Since when is fretting over such any employee group's proper concerns?

Not fretting, just curious. Aren't you curious? What else to talk about?

 

[EastUS1]

That's my point. Do we (USAPA) have the authority to say 'hold up boys while we sort this appeal out'? What is the legal mechanism to be employed? What stops the company from integrating ops on the effective date? Another lawsuit, injunction, LOA, MOU?

I'm asking here.

 
Understood. I'll observe that the established timeline, as offered by the APA, assumes as much as 24 months past the effective date for completion of seniority resolution as things now stand. The company's supposed position has been one of avoiding liability and remaining neutral where seniority is concerned. It seems reasonable to me to assume that if they should choose to sweepingly disregard all currently agreed to protocols that a countering injunction would be sought. Just my opinion, but if we're to assume management's at all concerned with issues of liability, that they'd be foolish indeed to proceed down such a path. Oh well...we're all just in front row seats and watching to see how act one, scene one of Mega-Merger, the new musical sensation on Broadway, will play out for now.

 

[Piedmont1984]

East

Understood, and not to belabor the point, IN THE EVENT that Silver rules against USAPA, what will be the opener with APA? Will we say here is our Nic list, but we will retract that later if we receive a favorable ruling from the 9th? Or will we say no negotiations yet, the M/B process must be placed on hold until the 9th gets back to us?

You can't conduct serious negotiations in the former scenario. You must have legal authority to pursue the latter.

 

[EastUS1]

East

Understood, and not to belabor the point, IN THE EVENT that Silver rules against USAPA, what will be the opener with APA? Will we say here is our Nic list, but we will retract that later if we receive a favorable ruling from the 9th? Or will we say no negotiations yet, the M/B process must be placed on hold until the 9th gets back to us?

You can't conduct serious negotiations in the former scenario. You must have legal authority to pursue the latter.

 
I'd have to think as expeditious as possible, appeal/countering injunction/etc would be sought. What'd happen from there per timing and positioning...who can now know? I see your point here, and am only suggesting that the waters would then become muddied to an extent that we can't now reasonably even guess at. Even just what the APA's interest and positioning would be from such is anyone's guess, etc.
 
Bottom Line for me? = "I got nuthin", save for pure speculation here.

 

[A320 Driver]

 
I'd have to think as expeditious as possible, appeal/countering injunction/etc would be sought. What'd happen from there per timing and positioning...who can now know? I see your point here, and am only suggesting that the waters would then become muddied to an extent that we can't now reasonably even guess at. Even just what the APA's interest and positioning would be from such is anyone's guess, etc.
 
Bottom Line for me? = "I got nuthin", save for pure speculation here.

Show me anything that guarantees a safe landing... I don't think there is anything. The three way MB wouldn't bother me except that I know USAPA will fumble the ball. Everything that has happened since the NIC came out has shown just how wrong he was in accessing our value AND the value of the West franchise. At some point we are going to have to plant our feet and let this thing play out so we can all get on with our lives.... Just my opinion...

 

[Piedmont1984]

Maybe one of the USAPA shills could chime in - hey Cleanex, wakey wakey.

 

[Pi brat]

I understand that. My question is - what if we lose AddingtonII and begin the appeal process? The timeline takes us far beyond the 30 day protocol + 90 day negotiating period stipulated in the MOU. Is M/B delayed while we wait for an answer from the 9th? Will DP and the BK judge and the UCC be okay with waiting while we sort this out?

I have no idea, but will they have any choice? They were party to this, even if Silver let them off. As PHX said, why didn't they specify that the west have a seat? Why didn't they make it clear that the Nic would or wouldn't be used? What do you do when you have a contract that says one thing but you have a legal dispute over it? I'd say you delay the SLI with AA until it's settled, but I have no idea what will really happen.
 
Hopefully the BK judge will be done with us before it becomes an issue.

 

[Pi brat]

Show me anything that guarantees a safe landing... I don't think there is anything. The three way MB wouldn't bother me except that I know USAPA will fumble the ball. Everything that has happened since the NIC came out has shown just how wrong he was in accessing our value AND the value of the West franchise. At some point we are going to have to plant our feet and let this thing play out so we can all get on with our lives.... Just my opinion...

Have you looked at the other team in this screwed up football game?
 
I wouldn't care, would actually support, separate west representation in a 3 way if we agreed that we start with 3 lists as I read the MOU. But the west will argue that we start with the Nic and won't come off of it. Then we will go into arbitration as a screwed up mess. Plus, I think that would open a whole can of worms.
 
By your post you don't seem to think USAPA will do a good job. I have my doubts too. Should we get a separate seat at the table? Can I get one at the JCBA talks?

 

[nic4us]

That's my point. Do we (USAPA) have the authority to say 'hold up boys while we sort this appeal out'? What is the legal mechanism to be employed? What stops the company from integrating ops on the effective date? Another lawsuit, injunction, LOA, MOU?
I'm asking here.

Get used to this phrase.....Post your bond with the court.....

Then the soon to be former union can peruse it's appeal or whatever it wishes,, of course with no money and a legal precedence of having to return it's collected dues to the membership (I.e. The uscaba treasury will be taken over by the APA as trustee to disperse to the former LCC pilot membership) I am thinking the appeal might get filed but will not go far, and a very small minority of the 15000 pilots of the New American will care for their union to peruse any appeal.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Get used to this phrase.....Post your bond with the court.....
Then the soon to be former union can peruse it's appeal or whatever it wishes,, of course with no money and a legal precedence of having to return it's collected dues to the membership (I.e. The uscaba treasury will be taken over by the APA as trustee to disperse to the former LCC pilot membership) I am thinking the appeal might get filed but will not go far, and a very small minority of the 15000 pilots of the New American will care for their union to peruse any appeal.

What's your back up plan if Silver surprises all and finds that USAPA is free to negotiate a seniority regime other than the Nic and that USAPA has a legitimate union purpose (because of the merger and through the instrument of the MOU) for doing so?