Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
- Status
Tim Nelson
Veteran
If the mx and ramp are released together then i think that would be the perfect situation and would agree that a release is the best path. Who would deny that? The release would offer powerful alternatives to a strike which would be last resort.P. REZ said:
A release upgrades the tool of leverage from a knife to a gun. And that gun must be used properly. Nonetheless, our leverage without a release is substantial enough to gain a equitable contract before agreeing to joint talks since its in managements best interest to have a seamless merger.
At any rate, the focus should be on that resolve, ie, contract ratification before joint talks. Anything less, for any excuse, is called bull S.
Jester
Veteran
Tim,
In a sense, aren't we somewhat beholdened to whatever flying the pilots are wiling to give up in their negotiations? For example, if the pilots are willing to allow more outsourcing of flying with smaller planes, would that not trickle down to other work groups, including fleet?
If I recall correctly DP said that E190s (maybe it was the E175s) were mainline, at least, that's what he once told the pilots group during a webcast. If I understand correctly, "mainline" can only be within the proper US Airways banner, not some wholly own subsidiary, especially a contractor. If US Airways pilots are doing the flying, then would it not be mainline, barring some different contractual language related to fleet? Thus, I think it is an important distinction if the newly ordered planes are PSA vs. US Airways (a.k.a New American) proper, as that will determine which pilot group are flying the metal and if they are technically "mainline" or Express.
In a sense, aren't we somewhat beholdened to whatever flying the pilots are wiling to give up in their negotiations? For example, if the pilots are willing to allow more outsourcing of flying with smaller planes, would that not trickle down to other work groups, including fleet?
If I recall correctly DP said that E190s (maybe it was the E175s) were mainline, at least, that's what he once told the pilots group during a webcast. If I understand correctly, "mainline" can only be within the proper US Airways banner, not some wholly own subsidiary, especially a contractor. If US Airways pilots are doing the flying, then would it not be mainline, barring some different contractual language related to fleet? Thus, I think it is an important distinction if the newly ordered planes are PSA vs. US Airways (a.k.a New American) proper, as that will determine which pilot group are flying the metal and if they are technically "mainline" or Express.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
Mike very well said bro
Tim Nelson
Veteran
The fundamental problem is that we dont even do most of the mainline regardless of rjs.Jester said:
Everyone works mainline except us unless our people have x amount of flights a day. That has to change. Why has the cwa kept and advanced the upstars in every station but we are settling on contracts that have such a high bar before we are able to touch mainline work? All other departments work all mainline, why shouldnt we?
We can talk about rjs and you make a case but we have given so much mainline away as well. There is a reason why canale got voted out of office. Any contract that doesnt advance our scope without drop dead detonation language is not worthy.
Tim,Tim Nelson said:
This is a very tough subject because of how it has affected employees past, present and possibly the future. Look at the various airlines and you will see similarities. Increased part time, ready reserve, mainline flights triggering work, etc. Even SW is not immune to this as they have asked for more part time and possible outsourcing of cities. IMO, SW will have something negative in their CBA that nobody expects. It is easy to say to people in a blog that if I were in charge I would do this or that but the reality is that all airline CEO's have done this to many employees and up to date nothing has stopped them.
I asked you in the past to forget about the disgust you have for some, if not all of our current leaders, and to help us help the membership. You see Tim, I believe you have the knowledge and drive to do positive things but you seem content on proving that we all suck. I don't believe I can ever be honest with you and discuss issues because I'm not sure if you would use stuff against me. That is unfortunate because if people engage me in conversation I'm not afraid to admit issues that need to be overcome. Discussing issues with people can get ideas on how to improve situations.
My question to you earlier on whether you thought being released by the NMB was the best possible scenario to get the contract we desired. IMO, If we were to get released, the NMB is going to have to believe that we have negotiated in good faith and have only needs with no wants left. This is an extremely tough process because where is that benchmark? Does something have to be put off until JCBA?
I do believe that we could get a contract without being released but there are problems to overcome. How long are employees willing to wait? Will TWU change their tune as time goes by and want us to jump into JCBA? Will the Company challenge scs and win?
P. Rez
Kev3188
Veteran
^This^
Kev3188
Veteran
Jester said:
Good ppoints, and IMO the best counter to that is to lock in solid scope at the station level, and ensure it includes small/medium/large RJ work.
Nothing has stopped them? How 'bout you guys START right now? Enough "they can do that, brother" or "we'll get 'em next time" hand wringing. Your membership can't make it any clearer for you guys.P. REZ said:
Quit playing by the rules labor never agreed to, stop letting yourselves get outclassed at the table, and quit buying into the idea that settling for less is okay because everyone else has gone through it.
The UAL NC had a great opportunity to not only do right by their membership, but all of labor in the industry. They blew it. Will you?
Kev3188
Veteran
Maybe, but there's no time like the present for the US NC to disprove that...737823 said:
Already have been going on for more than two years and no progress.Kev3188 said:
Had their not been new dues payers coming online from sCO passenger service, do you think the result at UA would be different? Again why didn't the district give sUA a stand alone CBA and then negotiate a JCBA? That is what AFA is doing for the F/As at UA...
The IAM was the biggest victor of the IBT drive at CO leading upto the merger. The IBT ratified the CBA in December 2010, so the IAM collected dues for administering the IBT agreement for over two years following the election in August 2011 through Nov 2013 with the new CBA. Despite Buffy's remarks towards Hoffa and the IBT I am sure he very grateful of their efforts.
Josh
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Kev had a helluva post that answers most of your questions.P. REZ said:
I will simply add the following:
1. The current eboard's actions certainly has proved much to the membership. Agreeing to ridiculous anti union contracts and lying about its contents is never acceptable. Yes i am both disgusted and disappointed.
2. I dont share the reality that you do that the ceos try to establish. In fact i believe your reality is false. The reality of the situation is that our airlines are making record profits and that ceos have always bucked part time cap and have always attacked scope, especially in bankruptcy where the ceos had incredible leverage. The difference now is that our leaders have supported management by agreeing to destroy full time jobs at hal and ual and have signed stupid scope clauses. In large part our leaders have given up leverage at various points and quite clearly become managements mouthpiece.
3. I have been helping out by educating the membership. The battle was at united and i was fully engaged. I wasnt on yhe same sidelines of management and its star qb delaneys team. But i also gotta work at least 40 hours a week. When i get to clt, ill be able to explain procedures, leverage, positions, and models in person to alot more members. And ill be able to point out the bs live in breakrooms if mf decides to sign some dopey crap and then sell it in clt.
4. Where is the benchmark?
I think we have to focus on our baseline (our contract) and build from that. Its all about usair, not united or southwest. If building ourbaseline establishes a new benchmark then great but we have to focus on our baseline stance and build from there.
Tim,Tim Nelson said:
Always political now aren't you? If the pilots give up flying to express what happens? Flight Attendants don't fly, mtc doesn't fix, etc. It is a trickle down effect. If city A has zero mainline because of this then what? Let me guess, you would use your leverage building techniques to get the Company to allow fleet to be the only group working an all express operation? If you ever want to discuss the truth of the matter and leave the politics alone, contact me.
- Status
Similar threads
