Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[robbedagain]

Josh I dont think they're gonna cave way too much is at steak here. I think soon enough the donkeys will give a contract just a matter of time donkey parker wants a seamless merger its high time he and his donkeys get off their tails and do the right thing now

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim do you think this is a positive sign that Delaney & Co are learning from their missteps at UA or is it too early to tell? My understanding is UA has long been in the driver seat of 141 and US was always on the back burner. Hopefully they won't cave on you guys.Josh

I worked with delaney and he is more corporate than parker so, no, he didnt learn anything. Imo this is bigger than delaney since the mx is involved. It bares mentioning that the same was said at united until political season was complete. Also, it appears that this may be bs since the twu is obligated to file single carrier within 6 months of today. Nonetheless, the section 6 should stay unless someone sells out.
At any rate, i like what is being said even if there isnt anything done. As Flair used to say "talk the talk but u gotta walk the walk".
It would be incredibly naive and unwise to trust the iam blindly, especially if they satisfy their statement with a contract with crumbs and termination dates.

 

[737823]

I worked with delaney and he is more corporate than parker so, no, he didnt learn anything. Imo this is bigger than delaney since the mx is involved. It bares mentioning that the same was said at united until political season was complete. Also, it appears that this may be bs since the twu is obligated to file single carrier within 6 months of today. Nonetheless, the section 6 should stay unless someone sells out.
At any rate, i like what is being said even if there isnt anything done. As Flair used to say "talk the talk but u gotta walk the walk".
It would be incredibly naive and unwise to trust the iam blindly, especially if they satisfy their statement with a contract with crumbs and termination dates.

But again with what they willingly put in place at UA stripping scope from most stations and cinderella dates protecting a small handful for a few years, AA/US would have a string case for, and be stupid not to press for a similar agreement. That's now "industry standard". Again it's very unfortunate that as the airline industry is stabilizing after successful restructuring the unions are readily allowing management to set your profession back. Heck even investors are now piling into airline stocks and enjoying attractive returns in an industry known to destroy capital and print losses year after year.

As I have said before, if the scope in the ramp and PCE for UA were adequate when they emerged from bankruptcy, they are now profitable and more stable, they should have moved forward not backwards. Same goes for US.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

But again with what they willingly put in place at UA stripping scope from most stations and cinderella dates protecting a small handful for a few years, AA/US would have a string case for, and be stupid not to press for a similar agreement. That's now "industry standard". Again it's very unfortunate that as the airline industry is stabilizing after successful restructuring the unions are readily allowing management to set your profession back. Heck even investors are now piling into airline stocks and enjoying attractive returns in an industry known to destroy capital and print losses year after year.
As I have said before, if the scope in the ramp and PCE for UA were adequate when they emerged from bankruptcy, they are now profitable and more stable, they should have moved forward not backwards. Same goes for US.
Josh

Josh,
United announced today another couple hundred layoffs because they only made $800 million in the quarter instead of $1.3.
They also announced fte reductions, ie, full time to part time and are also destroying pce stations as i said they would. All district 141 unanimously approved the brutality according to what delaney wrote.
Obviously, more part time means more dues so we shouldnt be surprised when the iam stripped our people of family rearing jobs, and the twu stripped its people of the previous restrictions of part timers.
The ibt almost doubled its membership when it agreed to have 85% parg time at ups.
Labor has gotten desperate so the membership has taken on friendly fire.

It is still about education though. Hopefully the iam doesnt insult our people, if so we have to educate and inform.

The ua contrac

 

[ograc]

The leverage, IMO... going forward, is with the filing of SCS. This filing can only be done by the union. Until SCS is declared the company cannot integrate seniority or work forces. Thus denying the company the ability to fully realize the "synergies" promised to Wall Street and the shareholders of both companies as a result of this merger. IMO...The company needs the SCS filing! The company wants the SCS filing! The TWU and the IAM have agreed to co-represent. Subsequently, the co representation will be called "the Association". The Association, by letter of agreement, will be presided, for the first two years, by the President of the IAM. The IAM has taken an official stance that there will be contracts first for US M&R and Fleet Service before filing for SCS and eventual Transition Ageement negotiations. To the International, the respective Districts, NCs and most importantly the membership it's time to dig in and fight. LOCK and LOAD! 

 

[Tim Nelson]

The leverage, IMO... going forward, is with the filing of SCS. This filing can only be done by the union. Until SCS is declared the company cannot integrate seniority or work forces. Thus denying the company the ability to fully realize the "synergies" promised to Wall Street and the shareholders of both companies as a result of this merger. IMO...The company needs the SCS filing! The company wants the SCS filing! The TWU and the IAM have agreed to co-represent. Subsequently, the co representation will be called "the Association". The Association, by letter of agreement, will be presided, for the first two years, by the President of the IAM. The IAM has taken an official stance that there will be contracts first for US M&R and Fleet Service before filing for SCS and eventual Transition Ageement negotiations. To the International, the respective Districts, NCs and most importantly the membership it's time to dig in and fight. LOCK and LOAD! 

The problem is that someone is jerking us off. The iam doesnt have that option to wait with scs (single carrier status). Regardless,the association should still stick with sUS negotiations only.

What our union leaders arent saying is that the twu has a mou that was also approved by the bankruptcy judge in which the twu must file for scs before 6 months from today. That is one big fact.

Applying the mou to the association agreement tells us that the association will in fact file the scs within the next 6 months and that one of two things will necessarily happen:

1. The iam and company package a take it or leave it contract.
2. The leadership of the unions blow smoke up our arses and flip like a pancake like they did at united.

Whatever the case, the iam press release is not accurate unless they anticipate a contract in 6 months.

Ah knows this. Therefore, knowing the mou, it appears to me that the iam is being intellectually dishonest. Jmo

 

[ograc]

The problem is that someone is jerking us off. The iam doesnt have that option to wait with scs (single carrier status). Regardless,the association should still stick with sUS negotiations only.

What our union leaders arent saying is that the twu has a mou that was also approved by the bankruptcy judge in which the twu must file for scs before 6 months from today. That is one big fact.

Applying the mou to the association agreement tells us that the association will in fact file the scs within the next 6 months and that one of two things will necessarily happen:

1. The iam and company package a take it or leave it contract.
2. The leadership of the unions blow smoke up our arses and flip like a pancake like they did at united.

Whatever the case, the iam press release is not accurate unless they anticipate a contract in 6 months.

Ah knows this. Therefore, knowing the mou, it appears to me that the iam is being intellectually dishonest. Jmo

Time, as always, wil tell. 

 

[737823]

Tim, when you say M&R is involved and will keep Rich and 141 on their toes do say that because they generally take more of a hard line approach and are less willing to rollover for this nonsense? United was a disaster all around for everyone involved, sure they ultimately ratified the agreement but voter turnout was pathetic and UA people are already sick and tried of this nonsense.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Time, as always, wil tell.

As far as the scs, time is ticking t minus 6 months. The iam cant make the statement that a scs will "only" happen if all contracts have to be settled first.
Im just trying to inform folks of what has been agreed to so our people can better anticipate.

Filing a scs shouldnt change sUS negotiations regardless.

 

[700UW]

The TWU and IAM agreed to only file the SCS together, the TWU changed the MOU if I remember correctly.

 

[T5towbar]

Josh,
United announced today another couple hundred layoffs because they only made $800 million in the quarter instead of $1.3.
They also announced fte reductions, ie, full time to part time and are also destroying pce stations as i said they would. All district 141 unanimously approved the brutality according to what delaney wrote.
Obviously, more part time means more dues so we shouldnt be surprised when the iam stripped our people of family rearing jobs, and the twu stripped its people of the previous restrictions of part timers.
The ibt almost doubled its membership when it agreed to have 85% parg time at ups.
Labor has gotten desperate so the membership has taken on friendly fire.

It is still about education though. Hopefully the iam doesnt insult our people, if so we have to educate and inform.

The ua contrac

Yeah. I saw the letter today.
We knew it was going to happen sooner or later. It's about the dues. 2 for 1. No loss in dues.
200 people will be furloughed, and the affected people will get notices on the 16th. Ironically the day that the retro payments will be made. I don't know what station(s) will be affected though. But from what I've been hearing, they want to reduce more people from FT to PT. I don't know how the company will get around LOA #5 (4.A.7.a), but I think that they will figure it out some kind of way. (They will probably reduce RSM since it mainly says you can't have PT Leads or Storkeepers.) When we had our 150 furloughs at EWR, the other thing was that more than another 100 or more were forced from FT to PT. A lot of people didn't know that. Don't know how many in our hub will be downgraded if the case since we already had furloughs. The company wants to save 2 billion.

Sort of reminds me of a Facebook post that Tim wrote called "The Late Great ORD". If I read correctly, ORD has somewhere about a 70-30 Full to Part Time ratio. If that's the case, no other station comes close. (I think we are somewhere close to 60-40 F to P. Tim said that they will "rightsize" ORD to keep staffing aligned to the rest of the system. With this news, it may happen.

In your case, I hope Delaney learned his lesson with our contract. No "Helping Hands" agreements. Get yours first before any joint talks. PERIOD.

 

[700UW]

This morning marks the end of US Airways. The name of the airline will now become part of air transportation history and eventually the answer to a trivia question. The new company will work very hard to get the traveling public to forget US Airways and embrace American Airlines as the largest airline in the world.
Today there will be much celebration among the management of the airline, some for the obscene payouts they are receiving for walking away.  This is their celebration, not ours. I request all District 141 members avoid actively participating on company sponsored or organized voluntary programs related to the merger.
The treatment of US Airways employees, especially IAM represented employees, is what should be remembered today. Throughout the course of the planned merger our members have been disrespected and victimized. The company clearly drew a line between employee groups when they secretly negotiated with other groups when they should have been negotiating the wages and benefit levels of their own employees. The company’s focus on the success of the merger rather than the success of their employees’ futures has caused an unnecessary and costly delay to the negotiation process and has placed USAir members at a disadvantage. That is not something to celebrate.
While we wait for direction from the National Mediation Board regarding further negotiation sessions we understand that this accomplished merger of today still has hurdles to cross. The governmental issuing of a single operating certificate still must occur and is not expected for well over a year. The most critical aspect of the merger for employees of both carriers is the petitioning for, and the granting of, a single carrier status for each employee group. Until both of those necessary steps are complete there can be no fully functioning merged carrier. Our Alliance with the Transport Workers Union will determine when a request for single carrier status is made. Until then, we intend to continue negotiating on behalf of our USAir members and reaching a progressive and fair agreement that positions all employees well for future combined talks.
When that happens all employees will have something to celebrate.

 

[Tim Nelson]

This morning marks the end of US Airways. The name of the airline will now become part of air transportation history and eventually the answer to a trivia question. The new company will work very hard to get the traveling public to forget US Airways and embrace American Airlines as the largest airline in the world.
Today there will be much celebration among the management of the airline, some for the obscene payouts they are receiving for walking away.  This is their celebration, not ours. I request all District 141 members avoid actively participating on company sponsored or organized voluntary programs related to the merger.
The treatment of US Airways employees, especially IAM represented employees, is what should be remembered today. Throughout the course of the planned merger our members have been disrespected and victimized. The company clearly drew a line between employee groups when they secretly negotiated with other groups when they should have been negotiating the wages and benefit levels of their own employees. The company’s focus on the success of the merger rather than the success of their employees’ futures has caused an unnecessary and costly delay to the negotiation process and has placed USAir members at a disadvantage. That is not something to celebrate.
While we wait for direction from the National Mediation Board regarding further negotiation sessions we understand that this accomplished merger of today still has hurdles to cross. The governmental issuing of a single operating certificate still must occur and is not expected for well over a year. The most critical aspect of the merger for employees of both carriers is the petitioning for, and the granting of, a single carrier status for each employee group. Until both of those necessary steps are complete there can be no fully functioning merged carrier. Our Alliance with the Transport Workers Union will determine when a request for single carrier status is made. Until then, we intend to continue negotiating on behalf of our USAir members and reaching a progressive and fair agreement that positions all employees well for future combined talks.
When that happens all employees will have something to celebrate.

This is the part where I hate when unions BS and try to position their members with nonsense and fairy tales.  Either our leaders have no understanding of research and signed documents or they are being intellectually dishonest.  Nothing in between.
 
700, you almost always provide research to uphold your position, and rightfully so.  You above all folks, can't get away with "I think the TWU changed their MOU".  I know you know the truth in that the TWU necessarily has to file a SCS within 6 months of yesterday. This has nothing to do with opinion.   AH gave the AMR members a 4.3% pay raise and in return he got the single carrier guarantee.  Kindly read the following:
 
http://twu514.org/blog/2013/02/15/memorandum-of-understanding-mou-between-twu-and-us-airways-dated-jan-25-2013/
 
The agreement between the TWU and IAM, while I support its idea, has NOTHING to do with the contract between the TWU and AMR. 
 
That said, the IAM should just be straight with members and say they are sticking in sUS talks, regardless.  The fact that they didn't say that suggest to me that the IAM is going to start S folks by piling up and manufacturing some situation that is not the reality.  One thing I hope is not the case, is that all of their new BS doesn't mean a mini contract that doesn't adequately address scope and other crucial things.  The BS suggest to me that a new TA will be offered sometime in the next 6 months and the IAM will claim it is 'solid' and a result of 'solidarity' and 'fighting like hell' by not 'backing down to management.'   
 
yaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnnn.     Just be straight and honest.  That's how they should be, but every time their lips are moving they are lying.  And most [not all] NC members really have little to no formal education or research degrees and no idea on research or anything legal so when Delaney says "The attorneys have advised us to do this or that...",  the NC ask one or two questions and then that's a wrap. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yeah. I saw the letter today.
We knew it was going to happen sooner or later. It's about the dues. 2 for 1. No loss in dues.
200 people will be furloughed, and the affected people will get notices on the 16th. Ironically the day that the retro payments will be made. I don't know what station(s) will be affected though. But from what I've been hearing, they want to reduce more people from FT to PT. I don't know how the company will get around LOA #5 (4.A.7.a), but I think that they will figure it out some kind of way. (They will probably reduce RSM since it mainly says you can't have PT Leads or Storkeepers.) When we had our 150 furloughs at EWR, the other thing was that more than another 100 or more were forced from FT to PT. A lot of people didn't know that. Don't know how many in our hub will be downgraded if the case since we already had furloughs. The company wants to save 2 billion.

Sort of reminds me of a Facebook post that Tim wrote called "The Late Great ORD". If I read correctly, ORD has somewhere about a 70-30 Full to Part Time ratio. If that's the case, no other station comes close. (I think we are somewhere close to 60-40 F to P. Tim said that they will "rightsize" ORD to keep staffing aligned to the rest of the system. With this news, it may happen.

In your case, I hope Delaney learned his lesson with our contract. No "Helping Hands" agreements. Get yours first before any joint talks. PERIOD.

LOA#5, as I repeatedly posted on facebook, does not have any commitment to full time.  Period.  It is an 'exception letter only', i.e., it more accurately reads, all full timers can be downgraded to part time as long as the company isn't doing it to produce back to back part time.   The Union and the company provided the Title, "Full Time Commitment"  but it was title only, a clever manufacturization by the union to give the delusion that full timers are protected. The union leaders even had those deployed on their dime telling folks that a certain number was guaranteed.   At any rate, the contract does allow part time leads and plenty of them.
 
 As far as ORD, there are over 2,000 full timers on the ramp, and only 70 part timers [over 95% full time].

 

[Tim Nelson]

The TWU and IAM agreed to only file the SCS together, the TWU changed the MOU if I remember correctly.

please provide your reference.  The MOU was changed in early 2013. I provided the updated MOU above.