Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[charlie Brown]

Guys, I know I and P Rez has said before. The negotiating team is against fence agreements, or any combining work until we get the joint agreement. Hell that's where our leverage is!! Why would we give that up for nothing. A few of you keep talking as if you say it enough times it will happen. I think we have made it clear.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well, let's see what the IAM leadership does when it happens. Story around the campfire in PHX is that the next bid was pushed back another month to accommodate the merger with AA. As it is highly unlikely (in fact, let's just assume impossible) for a single contract with fleet, there is a very real possibility of US FSA working American metal early 2014. It is possible the "accommodation" could be little more than trying to re-work the hub-to-hub US/AA flights, but that seems like an usually long delay for a few flights.

I hope that someone in the IAM has already placed the Tempe Boys on notice this arrangement will be unacceptable, especially as PHX FSAs will be working furloughed AA FSAs work!

This is a problem Jester.  The IAM and TWU jointly agreed to approach the company about a helping hand agreement where laid off AMR agents are recalled on the USair side as new hires, instead of hiring 'new hires' off the street as US AIRWAYS is doing.  In fact, US AIRWAYS is hiring tons of rampers.
 
The problem comes in that management wants us to work eachothers metal and the union seems all too willing to accomadate [see United].  If this happens, leverage WILL BE LOST.  The union pawned it off at United as a job saving agreement and that if it worked close with management that management would reward the employees with a solid contract.  Lies on all accounts.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Guys, I know I and P Rez has said before. The negotiating team is against fence agreements, or any combining work until we get the joint agreement. Hell that's where our leverage is!! Why would we give that up for nothing. A few of you keep talking as if you say it enough times it will happen. I think we have made it clear.

Were you aware of the TWU and IAM meeting last week where they agreed to approach management about AMR agents being recalled by US AIRWAYS at new hire wages/seniority, instead of US AIRWAYS hiring a new hire?  Then after a joint contract, regaining their previous seniority/pay, sorta like what happened at USair/America West merger.
 
A TWU staffer reported that both unions agreed to approach the company.  That may be worked out above the negotiations committee level, dunno.  If you don't know about it then it is.

 

[Tim Nelson]

"TWU officials met with IAM representatives yesterday, November 25, 2013 at the TWU International offices in Washington, D.C. to discuss the TWU/IAM Joint Employee Associations. We discussed topics that were raised at the AA/US Airways TWU Presidents meeting held with President Lombardo in October. It was agreed that both parties would approach US Airways regarding the recall of our members to cities prior to hiring off the street. The meeting was professional and cordial. Both parties agreed to think about the other topics raised, and to schedule future meetings." --ATD Director, Garry Drummond
 
Drummond is the #1 guy for the TWU in the airlines. 
 
Was the negotiation team advised of the above?  And why is the TWU more forthcoming about this and we have to go to the TWU site to get this info? 

 

[mike33]

Were you aware of the TWU and IAM meeting last week where they agreed to approach management about AMR agents being recalled by US AIRWAYS at new hire wages/seniority, instead of US AIRWAYS hiring a new hire?  Then after a joint contract, regaining their previous seniority/pay, sorta like what happened at USair/America West merger.
 
A TWU staffer reported that both unions agreed to approach the company.  That may be worked out above the negotiations committee level, dunno.  If you don't know about it then it is.

To lay the groundwork is all that implied to my knowledge and i think it is right. Give me a scenario where it isn't?  Lets not jump the gun here and presume the most neg situation. They can hire all the want. It doesn't change the fact that they can't work others metal without what we demand. Contracts Now!

 

[charlie Brown]

Tim
Are you actually saying you think it would be best to hire new hires off the street before you hire furloughed AA agents??? Let's reverse the scenario, what if it were US agents? Would you rather them hire off the street? Better yet, what if it was you furloughed? Would you rather them hire off the street instead of you?

 

[Tim Nelson]

To lay the groundwork is all that implied to my knowledge and i think it is right. Give me a scenario where it isn't?  Lets not jump the gun here and presume the most neg situation. They can hire all the want. It doesn't change the fact that they can't work others metal without what we demand. Contracts Now!

Oh I agree, it's a separate issue from metal. But this scenario also became an agreement in the previous America West merger where the IAM/TWU claimed it was fair to bring back TWU members at the expense of 'helping hands'.  Parker always wants something.  At United, Delaney said NO to metal swapping but then overnight cut a deal without any discussion to allow cross fleeting.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
Are you actually saying you think it would be best to hire new hires off the street before you hire furloughed AA agents??? Let's reverse the scenario, what if it were US agents? Would you rather them hire off the street? Better yet, what if it was you furloughed? Would you rather them hire off the street instead of you?

Like I said in an earlier post,  if it's just hiring a furloughed AMR agent over a new hire, then what's the fuss?  Is that all it is or is there something else you have to tell us about?  Were you aware of this?
If Parker is just going to be a nice fella then great

 

[charlie Brown]

Like I said in an earlier post,  if it's just hiring a furloughed AMR agent over a new hire, then what's the fuss?  Is that all it is or is there something else you have to tell us about?  Were you aware of this?
If Parker is just going to be a nice fella then great

And like I Said in a earlier post. I think we have made it clear to you and anyone on here that we are against any fence agreements. So is that a yes? Or no to my question? You would rather them hire off the street before the recalled you or any other US fleet agent that was furloughed??

 

[Tim Nelson]

And like I Said in a earlier post. I think we have made it clear to you and anyone on here that we are against any fence agreements. So is that a yes? Or no to my question? You would rather them hire off the street before the recalled you or any other US fleet agent that was furloughed??

I think it is fair if that's all it is, like I said.  Is there anything else to it?  Is it just straight up hiring AMR laid off folks as a new hire or is there anything more to it?  That's the question.  Excuse me if I don't trust that Parker would want something in return when he did last time he did this.
 
I mean, Parker isn't giving our people squat, but the TWU members, even laid off members, seem to be getting considerations.  Our people need something.

 

[charlie Brown]

I think it is fair if that's all it is, like I said.  Is there anything else to it?  Is it just straight up hiring AMR laid off folks as a new hire or is there anything more to it?  That's the question.  Excuse me if I don't trust that Parker would want something in return when he did last time he did this.
 
I mean, Parker isn't giving our people squat, but the TWU members, even laid off members, seem to be getting considerations.  Our people need something.

I always love how you spin things!! I guess I'll take that as a NO!! You don't think they should hire off the street before they recall furloughs. Is that correct?? And I'm not asking you to believe anything Parker says. I'm asking you to read PRez and my post that we are against any fence agreements thats gonna take leverage from us, and benefit the company. Again, how much clearer can I make it. But you keep asking the question. Why? Surely a guy that was running for district president can understand a post can't he? Sorry, that was hitting below the belt.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I think you'd be hard  pressed to find any furloughed AA guys taking recall to a zero seniority ,step one pay gig at Airways.Where'd you even hear that flight of fancy? None of the local 501 officers in NY had even heard of such a thing.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It's completely sad that you revert to personal shots and political statements.  I'll refrain and stay on topic.
 
BTW, I'm one of YOUR PEOPLE.  Why should I be impressed with my union agreeing to approach US AIRWAYS management on behalf of laid off workers from another union?  Hasn't the TWU members already signed enough agreements with Parker?   All we hear is how Parker is busting our balls and not giving in to ANYTHING, but our NC is working out things for laid off TWU members.  WTH? 
 
I'm not spinning anything.  I've actually asked you twice if there is anything attached to the IAM asking Parker to hire laid off AMR workers over new hires, but you haven't answered.   Again, excuse me if I think it's a bit rude of Parker for working out things with the TWU and now working out things for laid off TWU members over at US AIRWAYS, without working out a damn thing for our people.  I have a problem with that and so should you.

 

[robbedagain]

Cb I know u and the rest are standing against the fence and u all are to be commended for that I too am against fence contracts first enough is enough lock n loaded

 

[Tim Nelson]

I think you'd be hard  pressed to find any furloughed AA guys taking recall to a zero seniority ,step one pay gig at Airways.Where'd you even hear that flight of fancy? None of the local 501 officers in NY had even heard of such a thing.

I agree, but it has always been more than that.  During the last merger, the NC came back and told us that laid off US AIRWAYS members would be recalled at day one instead of new hires. In the reality of the situation, what was not told was that the union signed off on a helping hand agreement in return. Grant you, the previous NC is not THIS NC, but are we to believe that Parker is just a nice fella and won't want to get anything in return for the very few laid off workers who would love to come back at day one and day one pay?  I've seen these pimp unions do this time and time again so I'm not too trusting of them. Especially how they hosed us during our last merger and then just bent over the United members.