Not Getting the 4% Right Away is Actually an Advantage for MX

[Tim Nelson]

Tim the top base rate in comparrison to the two airlines not counting longevity will be DL at $24.81 over the UAL rate of $24.60 on 1/1/15. 7% above the DL rate takes us to $26.55 base.

Not talking at the moment about anything else (we'll see there) is that something that you think you could put your stamp of approval on?

Yes

 

 

[WeAAsles]

Well UPS is physically a lot closer to where I work than Delta is. The fact is they do the same job we do, if anything less because their cabins are not fitted for passengers. 
 
 
 
The problem is you are spinning the 401K match in with the wage. Sure its compensation but so is Medical benefits, ours is the worst, vacation, again-the worst, sick time-again the worst, Holidays, -again the worst. Posts like that make it look like you are getting more like Overspeed and NYer every day. Early in 2009 Videtich was doing a road trip and telling our guys our total compensation package was around the same as Continental when you factored in benefits, well I looked at their contract and it came out that not only was their wage a little higher but their benefits were around $10,000 a year better. He stopped making that claim. 
 
Maybe you don't care what other people who do the same job as you get, maybe you are satisfied with what you got or maybe you aren't as deep into the bottom as mechanics are. 
 
 UAL and US were dumped in the PBGC, AA and Delta's were not, they were frozen. No changes were made at WN or UPS, I believe Fed Ex was frozen, then reinstated, then frozen, depends on Fred Smiths mood because they don't have a Union but he does pay his guys a lot better than AA does so they gan afford to put some money away. 

Bob I grew up with 5 friends who all went to college unlike me. One is a Labor lawyer making almost 300K a year in Philly, one works for an Aircraft Engine finance company and makes about 120K, another seeds lawns and is currently layed off for the season and was making $12 per hour, my friend Jerry worked for AA for 22 years and left to become a court officer and the last is in Prison for life.

Maybe that should tell you why my perspective is not to run around comparing myself to anyone else. I'm not saying that you shouldn't if that's your calling. Just telling you why I don't want to.

Here's the story of my friend Pat in Prison for life.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/06/nyregion/bar-bouncer-gets-30-years-for-2-slayings.html

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes
 

Ok you surprised me there.

 

[NYer]

I'm assuming that the TWU INTL leadership has already formulated a plan and addressed that with the IAM INTL, and NMB, and that things will move forward after the first of the year.
 
There would be nothing stopping that, nor anything that can rival that other than insanity and stubbornness.  At any rate, there needs to be some communication on this prior to January 31, because this prosperous environment just isn't going to last forever.  I've been in this industry for 30 years and it is so volatile that it would make no sense in waiting.  These are the best of times to negotiate, and hopefully, sanity prevails. Not saying the two unions went about this the right way, but what is done is done, so let's move forward.
 

 
If they have a formulated plan it's seems like a state secret.

 

[NYer]

Assume we will be looking for or assume thats what they will be offering? 

 
Bob, we already know you're looking for a 40% bump so I'd say they 7% is the threshold where the other unions seemed to have settled themselves in.
 
So, we can assume that before we've even been to the table we have gained value from our current position. Where maintenance ends up depends on how many times they can say no to any deal brought for a vote.

 

[MetalMover]

 These are the best of times to negotiate, and hopefully, sanity prevails. Not saying the two unions went about this the right way, but what is done is done, so let's move forward.
 

A good first step to MOVING FORWARD would have been to give EVERYONE the 4%.

 

[MetalMover]

 
If they have a formulated plan it's seems like a state secret.

Since the IAM/TWU believe this alliance is a shoe-in, as do some posters on this forum, do you truly believe the two have NOT been meeting "unofficially" for when the BIG day arrives? Do you relay believe they have not met to discuss their future together as "partners" in this grand alliance?

 

[FWAAA]

But I also know that most DBP's in the industry were thrown on the PBGC and those who go to collect will take a cut that currently I won't see since mine was frozen and the company is making up for those shortfalls.

Your AA pension (frozen) will be the same dollar amount you would have received each month had the pensions been terminated and turned over to the PBGC with one caveat: you will be able to retire at age 60 or 65 without any reduction, while there might have been a reduction at age 60 if the plans had been terminated instead of merely frozen.

Because AA has to shovel cash into those pension funds forever, that cash is not available for your pay and benefits. In effect, you and every other non-pilot continue to accept reduced pay to "save the pensions," just like from 2003-2011.

 

[Vortilon]

Bob I grew up with 5 friends who all went to college unlike me. One is a Labor lawyer making almost 300K a year in Philly, one works for an Aircraft Engine finance company and makes about 120K, another seeds lawns and is currently layed off for the season and was making $12 per hour, my friend Jerry worked for AA for 22 years and left to become a court officer and the last is in Prison for life.

Maybe that should tell you why my perspective is not to run around comparing myself to anyone else. I'm not saying that you shouldn't if that's your calling. Just telling you why I don't want to.

Here's the story of my friend Pat in Prison for life.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/06/nyregion/bar-bouncer-gets-30-years-for-2-slayings.html

 
 
You don't like using comparisons?  Well Weas, thats what airlines and their employees have been doing for decades.  It's just the way the system is set up, from CEOs down to the lowest senority FSC.

 

[MetalMover]

Bob I grew up with 5 friends who all went to college unlike me. One is a Labor lawyer making almost 300K a year in Philly, one works for an Aircraft Engine finance company and makes about 120K, another seeds lawns and is currently layed off for the season and was making $12 per hour, my friend Jerry worked for AA for 22 years and left to become a court officer and the last is in Prison for life.

Maybe that should tell you why my perspective is not to run around comparing myself to anyone else. I'm not saying that you shouldn't if that's your calling. Just telling you why I don't want to.

Here's the story of my friend Pat in Prison for life.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/06/nyregion/bar-bouncer-gets-30-years-for-2-slayings.html

Well maybe we should forget the September industry wage adjustment.

 

[NYer]

Your AA pension (frozen) will be the same dollar amount you would have received each month had the pensions been terminated and turned over to the PBGC with one caveat: you will be able to retire at age 60 or 65 without any reduction, while there might have been a reduction at age 60 if the plans had been terminated instead of merely frozen.

Because AA has to shovel cash into those pension funds forever, that cash is not available for your pay and benefits. In effect, you and every other non-pilot continue to accept reduced pay to "save the pensions," just like from 2003-2011.

 
That's a value few speak on. On top of the pension payments they're making to ensure our accrued pensions will be there we also get the 401K Match. Those are important items.

 

[toroshark]

Did you vote in the midterm elections?

Nice deflection douchebag.

 

[xUT]

Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why you have non-M&R telling you how great you have it.
A few non-M&R have hooked their allegiance to the 'association' and will perpetuate any half truth and lie to prove their point.
JMHO,
B) xUT

 

[MetalMover]

Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why you have non-M&R telling you how great you have it.
A few non-M&R have hooked their allegiance to the 'association' and will perpetuate any half truth and lie to prove their point.
JMHO,
B) xUT

You noticed. The non mechanic group has done right by the TWU. But they have trouble understanding why many mechanics do not like the TWU.
Before we separated from  fleet service, we were at their mercy. Could never get a mechanic elected to local president positions and other officers because we were the minority.
And why would they? Why would they want to elect a mechanic as they felt their needs and issues would not be properly addressed.
They failed to realize we have separate issues and needs as well. Also they have been compensated at or near the top of the industry while we are at or near the bottom.

 

[scorpion 2]

That's a value few speak on. On top of the pension payments they're making to ensure our accrued pensions will be there we also get the 401K Match. Those are important items.

 
 

Like FWAAA said, we are paying for it by not getting something somewhere else. No bonus in this deal. Read his full post Mr. selective reading!