Not Getting the 4% Right Away is Actually an Advantage for MX

[Tim Nelson]

The negativity has been so thick on the 4% raise that it seems most have actually missed that it is actually better for AMT's to get the raise later rather than now.
 
Let's see how long it will take the party poopers to realize they're on the wrong side of the argument.
 
You guys really need to think things through before just going to the automatic negative responses about not getting the 4% immediately.

 
Fleet is locked in at its bankrupt contract base top out of $24.25 in nine months, based on United contract and Delta pay raise this April.  Then a 2.1% for each of the following two years.  Parker will have to give more if he wants a joint contract.  Didn't he just give the Pilots 19% + 4% = 23%?  
 
If fleet got 23% raise on the $24.25, I'd be ok with that.
 

 

[NYer]

 
Fleet is locked in at its bankrupt contract base top out of $24.25 in nine months, based on United contract and Delta pay raise this April.  Then a 2.1% for each of the following two years.  Parker will have to give more if he wants a joint contract.  Didn't he just give the Pilots 19% + 4% = 23%?  
 
If fleet got 23% raise on the $24.25, I'd be ok with that.
 

 
Oh Brother! The line to look at is that those work groups will be at about 7% higher than Delta.
 
"In an unprecedented move, American management has announced a wage increase today for all employees with Joint Collective Bargaining Agreements...This means the flight attendant rates of pay will be 7 percent higher than those at Delta." --APFA
 
"American Airlines President Scott Kirby outlined specifics of the revised proposal in a letter to all pilots. In his letter, Mr. Kirby states that the proposal includes "a pay scale that provides pilots with increases of approximately 23% upon signing, bringing American's pilots to rates 7% higher on average than Delta's rates." --APA
 
For us, that would mean the mechanics should get a increase higher than Fleet and other groups as we all aim towards at least 7% more than Delta. (assuming Delta has the highest wages in each group)

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Oh Brother! The line to look at is that those work groups will be at about 7% higher than Delta.
 
For us, that would mean the mechanics should get a increase higher than Fleet and other groups as we all aim towards at least 7% more than Delta. (assuming Delta has the highest wages in each group)

On Jan 1, 2015 UAL will be at $24.60 BASE and Delta will be at $24.81 BASE.

This does not include Longevity and Shift Differential in the known UAL CBA.

 

[scorpion 2]

 
Not at all. Parker was very adamant about not paying profit sharing during the merger talks. That is something that was not going to survive moving forward, in the mean time we've received a 4.3% raise that has lifted our wages and 401K totals beyond what we'd achieve in one year of profit sharing.
 
That same decision was made by all the unions.
 
It's very strange to hear some of the same folks always arguing we're the lowest paid to be upset about raises in pay. We had profit sharing from 2003 to 2012 and these same folks were arguing the airline was hiding money and cooking the books so they can show a loss and not pay out the profit sharing. =/
 

Why have a union if Parker gets what he wants, lets just roll over and take it! First you say no raises right now are good but justify giving up profit sharing for a raise is good. You have no idea what the profit sharing would have been. As for the other unions if they jump off a cliff are we supposed to also. Since the twu will not make a move or public statement until after the other 2 unions  step forward I suppose the answer is yes. Why not try and comment on the whole post instead of picking a few words from it and justifying  to yourself that you rebutted what was said. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Why have a union if Parker gets what he wants, lets just roll over and take it! First you say no raises right now are good but justify giving up profit sharing for a raise is good. You have no idea what the profit sharing would have been. As for the other unions if they jump off a cliff are we supposed to also. Since the twu will not make a move or public statement until after the other 2 unions  step forward I suppose the answer is yes. Why not try and comment on the whole post instead of picking a few words from it and justifying  to yourself that you rebutted what was said. 

Scorpion no matter what we are not going to be in Section 6 negotiations. As it stands if we are just talking about BASE rate for Fleet, 7% above the Delta top rate takes us to $26.55. On the TWU side we have a top longevity of .30 for 20 years of service. Add to that "maybe" the shift differential language that UAL fleet enjoys which is .53 Afternoons and .57 Nights and the 5.5% match the company gives me in my 401k and a Topped out 20 year clerk will be looking at a BASE (5.5% excluded from the math) of $27.42 (if he takes the night shift) or $57,033,60 per year with no extra hours worked above 40 per week.

Our Crew Chiefs make an additional $2.07 per hour. So now they would be making $29.49 or $61,339.20 again with no extra hours worked.

And that's not including also maybe some additions to our Holidays and the rates paid there? 

So now really? Looking at those rates you think knowing that we are not in Section 6 and the company at worst can say F it we'll wait till the contracts expire in 2018 you think we should put up the stone wall for Profit Sharing?  

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Fleet is locked in at its bankrupt contract base top out of $24.25 in nine months, based on United contract and Delta pay raise this April.  Then a 2.1% for each of the following two years.  Parker will have to give more if he wants a joint contract.  Didn't he just give the Pilots 19% + 4% = 23%?  
 
If fleet got 23% raise on the $24.25, I'd be ok with that.
 

$29,82 BASE rate? Ok C'mon. Earth to Tim, you are cleared to reenter orbit. Tim you guys only just got a $2.50 per hour increase. Don't overshoot your wad there.

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
Oh Brother! The line to look at is that those work groups will be at about 7% higher than Delta.
 
"In an unprecedented move, American management has announced a wage increase today for all employees with Joint Collective Bargaining Agreements...This means the flight attendant rates of pay will be 7 percent higher than those at Delta." --APFA
 
"American Airlines President Scott Kirby outlined specifics of the revised proposal in a letter to all pilots. In his letter, Mr. Kirby states that the proposal includes "a pay scale that provides pilots with increases of approximately 23% upon signing, bringing American's pilots to rates 7% higher on average than Delta's rates." --APA
 
For us, that would mean the mechanics should get a increase higher than Fleet and other groups as we all aim towards at least 7% more than Delta. (assuming Delta has the highest wages in each group)

 
With Delta's new base at $24.81, and another $6,000 profit sharing check for topped out workers [close to $3 hour for this year], that isn't bad. 
United's compensation will be at $25.35 [with longevity], plus profit sharing [not as good as profit sharing as Delta though]
 
Since Parker wants his employees to be 7% over Delta, then either bring us up to 7% over Delta, i.e., $27 for 2015 wages, or bring back profit sharing.  We know we won't be able to get profit sharing for our members, but he shouldn't be able to get a joint contract if he doesn't pay us the 7% over base pay. 

 

 

[Tim Nelson]

$29,82 BASE rate? Ok C'mon. Earth to Tim, you are cleared to reenter orbit. Tim you guys only just got a $2.50 per hour increase. Don't overshoot your wad there.

At the end of the contract, why not?
 
Delta will be at $24.81 with a $6,000 profit sharing check as well.  We know Doug doesn't want to pay profit sharing checks so he has agreed that his employees should get a premium over base wages.  So, 7% of  Delta's wages of $24.81 is about $26.50hr for 2015 wages.  Still about $1.50 short of what Southwest ground employees [plus a big fat profit sharing check] will be making and only at par with Delta after we equal out the Delta profit sharing.  United will be at $25.35 but it has a profit sharing premium [not as good as delta's] that averages out as well.  So, if Delta, United, Southwest will average over $27, are you saying that the number one airline in the world and the most profitable airline can't at least match?
 
Toss in a presumed, and very modest, 2.5% year increase, over the next 3 years in any joint contract, and things start approaching $29 in 2019.  And that's not a lot.
 
Whatever the case, we aren't in bankruptcy any more WeAAsles, but your TWU leaders need to get things together and hop on the train.  Now is the time to negotiate, not the time to play politics. Our members deserve the TWU to put aside differences and work with the IAM, just as the TWU agreed to do with their Association agreement that they committed to the members 

 

[toroshark]

And the TWU membership should have a right to vote on this Association before anything more is jammed down our throats by self serving internationals.

 

[WeAAsles]

At the end of the contract, why not?
 
Delta will be at $24.81 with a $6,000 profit sharing check as well.  We know Doug doesn't want to pay profit sharing checks so he has agreed that his employees should get a premium over base wages.  So, 7% of  Delta's wages of $24.81 is about $26.50hr for 2015 wages.  Still about $1.50 short of what Southwest ground employees [plus a big fat profit sharing check] will be making and only at par with Delta after we equal out the Delta profit sharing.  United will be at $25.35 but it has a profit sharing premium [not as good as delta's] that averages out as well.  So, if Delta, United, Southwest will average over $27, are you saying that the number one airline in the world and the most profitable airline can't at least match?
 
Toss in a presumed, and very modest, 2.5% year increase, over the next 3 years in any joint contract, and things start approaching $29 in 2019.  And that's not a lot.
 
Whatever the case, we aren't in bankruptcy any more WeAAsles, but your TWU leaders need to get things together and hop on the train.  Now is the time to negotiate, not the time to play politics. Our members deserve the TWU to put aside differences and work with the IAM, just as the TWU agreed to do with their Association agreement that they committed to the members

Ok I didn't realize that you meant by the END of the contract.

Carry on.

 

[WeAAsles]

And the TWU membership should have a right to vote on this Association before anything more is jammed down our throats by self serving internationals.

Did you vote in the midterm elections?

 

[Bob Owens]

Kinda like how you blame everyone else instead of yourself?

Everyone? Nope, just those who voted YES for concessions and even more so those that told them to vote Yes and destroy what was once a good career. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
It seems this will get us more....but then again, your preferred method of getting more is saying, "no."
 
I know, it's not your fault. The entire TWU machinations is against you.

My preferred method is to go for real gains and not just accept whatever the company offers us. We dont need a Union if all they are going to do is relay what the company wants to give us. I recall how in the late 90s we were being told not to expect anything better than $27/hr, then the guys at NWA booted the IAM got $36, and so did we, and everyone else. All groups made gains but nobody except the pilots made the gains we did. 
 
Now we have some who are saying $50/hr is unattainable, even though the Flight Attendants are getting it as well as UPS. 
 
$50/hr, when adjusted for inflation and the other benefits that were lost still doesn't bring our living standards up to what they were in the beginning of 2003. 

 

[Bob Owens]

So your admitting that jim little giving away the last 5% of our profit sharing was a bonehead move? We would have gotten the raise anyway come september and still had profit sharing.
That decision was made by the whole twu machine ie. (jim little) One guy behind the curtain playing wizard .    Nobody in the twu membership had a voice in that decision or even knew it was about to happen. This is union??   What kind of BS are we paying dues too?  

According to NYer, 700 and Bigjets thats my fault. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
Not at all. Parker was very adamant about not paying profit sharing during the merger talks. That is something that was not going to survive moving forward, in the mean time we've received a 4.3% raise that has lifted our wages and 401K totals beyond what we'd achieve in one year of profit sharing.
 
That same decision was made by all the unions.
 
It's very strange to hear some of the same folks always arguing we're the lowest paid to be upset about raises in pay. We had profit sharing from 2003 to 2012 and these same folks were arguing the airline was hiding money and cooking the books so they can show a loss and not pay out the profit sharing. =/

But you leave out the fact we lost at least 6 years of Profit sharing for less than a two year advance of 4% of a raise we would receive anyway. 
 
Parker is adamant, so? With Delta, United and WN all paying Profit Sharing how would an arbitrator rule on that? 
 
Lift our pay up to the levels they were in real terms prior to the bankruptcy wave and they can keep their profit sharing, but don't say we will keep your pay way below SWA and UPS and just above Delta and United when they have profit sharing.