Non-Rev Boarding

[MCI transplant]

After reading you brilliantly crafted post again, I find it just a little odd that you mentioned "odd days off". surly a person of your stature with "40 year" could bid on a shift better suited to your need? I'm sorry that the thought of play checkers all day and yelling "KING ME!!" at the senior center in Boca Raton FL is far less exciting that traveling but, other activities, and even constructive hobbies exist besides travel.

Bob, what I was referring to by "odd days off" was in my 40 year's working in this Industry, I have had all, combinations of days off. I would have loved to have worked days, with week ends off, throughout my time with the Airlines! ------- But in the real world out there, that didn't happen, and in almost all cases with retirees, didn't ether!!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Bob, as it turned out Doug hasn't given the respect that they, and I mean "all" those who have built this Airline into what it is today, they deserve! If he had, he could have come up with a better solution to this whole issue. He could have Grandfathered, no pun intended, all retirees that retired before the merger, both AA, and US, into the old system, and those after into this new one! ------ He chose not to! Now, this thread is a good way to vent, but I don't believe it will change anything! Doug has made up his mind, and I really don't think any of this will change it.

 
That's not really any fairer.  What about those with 40 years that are about to retire, but not quite there yet?  Should their 40 years of service get trashed and they get thrown under the bus?
 
Perhaps a system like the US employees have (with a set number of SA1 passes that give them a bit of priority in boarding), but there are only a few opportunities per year.
 
Why not allow retirees to use their board with active employees list (FCFS) twice per year, along with one the significant other on their pass benefit?  That would allow a two pass-ride "vacations" (which they certainly have earned) each year.  More than that, they would go behind the active employees.
 
Besides....with FCFS, I really don't see what the big deal is if everybody sees where they stand  as soon as they list.

 

[eolesen]

I heard from another f/a who is related to Doug Parker's barber's yard man's cousin that one of the primary reasons that boarding priority for retirees was downgraded a notch is because there are now more living retirees than there are active employees.  that woud certainly make sense, and knowing the number of retired f/as just since I started in 2000, it is not outside the realm of possibility.  When I started in 2000 my seniority number was almost 25,000.  It is now about to slip below 12,000.

It's a fact, Jim.

When you consider everyone who has retired from TWA, Ozark, Allegheny, Piedmont v0, Air Cal, PSA v0, HP, US, and AA, there are indeed more living retirees than there are active employees. I don't think I've ever seen the number published, but AA was already past that tipping point in 2006.

With lifespans now regularly reaching into the 90's, there are a growing number of retirees who have been classified as retirees longer than they were classified active employees.

It's why the traditional pension programs were (and still are) collapsing at so many companies.

 

[IORFA]

That's not really any fairer.  What about those with 40 years that are about to retire, but not quite there yet?  Should their 40 years of service get trashed and they get thrown under the bus?
 
Perhaps a system like the US employees have (with a set number of SA1 passes that give them a bit of priority in boarding), but there are only a few opportunities per year.
 
Why not allow retirees to use their board with active employees list (FCFS) twice per year, along with one the significant other on their pass benefit?  That would allow a two pass-ride "vacations" (which they certainly have earned) each year.  More than that, they would go behind the active employees.
 
Besides....with FCFS, I really don't see what the big deal is if everybody sees where they stand  as soon as they list.

Um, that is what they are getting. Retirees are going to continue to get 4 one way D1's a year. Same as before. Did people actually read the new non rev travel policy? And yes, when you checkin, that time follows you all day no matter what flight you get. Either your first choice or whatever flight you choose to be rolled over to. I truly don't understand the nightmare scenarios that people make up. These made up problems don't happen. Besides screen shots of the standby list or a hard copy from the printer are valuable insurance IF you think there is hanky panky happening. With the last 12 years I've been commuting, only twice has there been an issue. One was a flight attendant who gamed the system to TRY and get home after working a trip. Didn't work as 6 of us other commuters figured it out. The second was a pilot I flew with a little but commuted from the same city. Back when we could only checkin 4 hours before, he always had his wife get him on the list before the rest of us. That loser ended up retiring because the flight department wouldn't let him slide on that one. Now days, it is a non issue as we can checkin before we even leave the hotel 24 hours in advanced.

 

[MCI transplant]

It's a fact, Jim.

When you consider everyone who has retired from TWA, Ozark, Allegheny, Piedmont v0, Air Cal, PSA v0, HP, US, and AA, there are indeed more living retirees than there are active employees. I don't think I've ever seen the number published, but AA was already past that tipping point in 2006.

With lifespans now regularly reaching into the 90's, there are a growing number of retirees who have been classified as retirees longer than they were classified active employees.

It's why the traditional pension programs were (and still are) collapsing at so many companies.

E I give Doug credit for doing the right thing by including the retirees from those other than AA/US. But let's be realistic here. The total numbers really don't give you a realistic picture of the number of retirees that would take advantage of their travel privileges. Retirees may live into their 90's, but how many of them will be traveling into that age?

 

[IORFA]

With the amount of TWR's I've seen lately, it seems like most if not all of them that are in their 90's.

 

[eolesen]

MCI, it probably works out to be more than you'd expect. My parents are in their late 80's, and still fly several times a year. Heck, my wife's grandmother in 97, and flew two trips I know of last summer.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI, it probably works out to be more than you'd expect. My parents are in their late 80's, and still fly several times a year. Heck, my wife's grandmother in 97, and flew two trips I know of last summer.

That's great E! But did they fly "space  available"? ------ Most their age don't want the "uncertainty" of it! And would rather pay full fair!

 

[eolesen]

Doesn't matter if my family flew space available or on tickets. The point is that age isn't always a limit to travel. There are people in their 40's who are in poor enough health not to be good candidates to travel on a ticket, and there are guys I know in their 70's who can still go backpacking 15 miles into the back country.

I suspect AA had more than enough information available to discern what % of their nonrevs were actives, retirees, dependents, and D3's.

 

[bigjets]

There are pro and cons about both non rev policy's, if we were to go by DOH, I think the USair employees will find out how senior AA is and regret not sticking with FCFS. I personally don't want to not get on a flight because a FA who flys once every other month wants to bring her daughter on her lay over trip to Vegas.

 

[MCI transplant]

Doesn't matter if my family flew space available or on tickets. The point is that age isn't always a limit to travel. There are people in their 40's who are in poor enough health not to be good candidates to travel on a ticket, and there are guys I know in their 70's who can still go backpacking 15 miles into the back country.

I suspect AA had more than enough information available to discern what % of their nonrevs were actives, retirees, dependents, and D3's.

Your starting to sound like Hillery E! ------" It does matter!" ------ My point was that even though the retirees do have the privilege to travel, a lot of them won't use it because at their age, they don't want to go through the hassle of not knowing if they'll get on a full aircraft! And the older they become, the truer that statement becomes!

 

[john john]

Um, he always had his wife get him on the list before the rest of us.

The question still remains! Can someone else check you in?

 

[MCI transplant]

The question still remains! Can someone else check you in?

The answer is yes. But what difference would it make? AA now has a 24 hour window to do so, so should no longer be a problem.

 

[IORFA]

The question still remains! Can someone else check you in?

Non employees are NOT supposed to have access to jetnet. Thus they are not allowed to check you in online. Like I said before, the problem is pretty much non existent these past years because we can check ourselves in online 24 hours ahead of time. So if they can check you in without going into jetnet, then it s fine. There is something called Jetaway they could use. I've actually never used it before, so not sure how it works. Before someone asks, our system of having NRTP on jetnet is a pain at times. Spouses, kids and significant others should not have access to it as there is too much proprietary info on it and depending on your job, they have access to SSI info. That is a big NO NO. On the other hand, at the carrier I commute on, there's is a separate site and they pass out the passwords to all sorts of people. Very helpful for me, but I can't reciprocate the same as they would have access to all of AA and my paychecks, benefits info and much more.

 

[Slopoke]

I've only flown non-rev under the FCFS rules. Me being fairly senior with 28 years and would probably benefit some under the DOH rules, I still prefer the FCFS system. Now the change of retiree boarding priority is BS.