I have 19 years here. I have Piedmont people above and below me in seniority. I have PSA people above me and below me in seniority. I have USAir people above me and below me in seniority. I have USAirways people below me in seniority. Can you tell which carrier I was originally with? Thats the way it should be.
Nobody Knows
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twambassador
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aafsc said:
aafsc please stop justifying what AA did to the TW people. Ask any airline industry person, that's very objective about the situation, and you'll get the same answer, "you guys got screwed!" The fact that what AA did is held as an example of what not to do by airlines facing mergers should say enough. I am currently an HP employee, and I have no issue with the US/HP merger, simply because I know no union or employee group facing merger negotiation is going to accept what happened to TWA. It's no longer about American and TWA. It's now the entire industry facing consolidation that's saying, we are not going to be treated like TWA was.
justaumechanic
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tadjr said:
Why should it be that way?
Why did the Empire Techs get all their seniority after Piedmont put them at the bottom of the list? They were non union and Piedmont put them where they needed to be.. Along came US Air and gave it all back to them and of course the first thing the Empire guys tell you is how US Air sucked and how wonderful Piedmont was..
Shuttle techs the same way.. Why should they get their seniority from Eastern? They signed a letter saying they quit.. So if they quit why should they get their seniority??
Why should an America West Tech or anyone else for that matter have to accept being jr to a US Airways person when US Airways is going out of business? AmWest is going to buy us.. Why should they give us anything? We are the ones wanting a savior..
Thats pure self interest talking.. The Piedmont deal the the PSA deal were true mergers.. Seniority should dovetail. US and AMWest, they are simply saving what is left of this place.. They owe US Airways and its people nothing.
justaumechanic said:
1) Well.....
2) I havent seen anything on an official scale as to who is doing what to whom so like so many others have said, what if its US (Bronners money?) buying HP or some other third party deal, then what? Staple HP? Throw everybodys seniority out the window and go by SS#? All the airlines work by seniority and if (big one I know) it were US buying HP, I dont think they should be stapled on the bottom just because someone decided to buy their company and merge it. None of the employees at any of the airlines have/had control over what happened. If so, many of us wouldnt be working where we currently are.
3) How about then having to be reinterviewed for the job if they owe us nothing. I'd be willing to go that route. Then all those with huge files could be rid of and those left could all start over at square one.
I still havent received any info on how many HP employees there actually are East of the Mississippi (or West for that matter). There are 0 HP people in my city. If they want to open up the flood gates of mass moving/more layoffs ,etc then staple away.
Workingman
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aafsc said:
You are so wrong AAFSC. The TWA ramp/AMT have a hard time accepting the way AA deals with them.
So you think it is okey for AA to lay off TWA employees while at the same time hiring off the street at another station. Then when the laid off employees go to the city where they are hiring they are told they will not be hired BECAUSE THEY ARE EX TWA EMPLOYEES?
So you think it is okey for ALL THE TWA FA's to be gone?
Do you think it is okey for the unions at AA not to file a grievence for a TWA employee BECAUSE THEY ARE EX TWA EMPLOYEE?
They way AA deals with ALL THEIR employees is really pathetic.
After reading Supercruiser's response to Princess K regarding Allegheny/Mowhawk, I got the impression that he/she was unaware that the TWA/AA mechanics/ramp went to binding arbitration. I was just informing him/her that we did.twambassador said:
And Workingman, if AA did hire off the street after laying off TWAers without offering the TWAers the job first, then I agree with you and think that is wrong and the TWAers have a right to file a greavience. I would think that contractually, they would have the first shot over someone from the street. By the way, do you think that the AA AMTS who were laid off in STL in the 1990s should have their contractual right to recall in STL against the wishes of the TWAers in STL even though they have more seniority? (This is according to Princess K). All the TWAers are crying about the intergration. But you wanted to staple the Ozark people. My proof is in the Jan-Feb issue of the MCIExpress in the column written by Mike Serrapica on page 4.
And by the way, I was recently laid off out of my former city by AA. So I have been affected by their business decisions also.
Wow. Imagine all the mud slinging that we have to look forward to in the event this actually becomes an issue.
I'd like to say that I don't expect many of our most senior people, who typically fly trans atlantic trips, to go running off to PHX or LAS. Sure there are a few that probably live out there and would rather be based there. Maybe there are some former CMH people at HP who would like to head back east. I've noticed HP recruits (inflight) almost exclusively in the PHX area while US hired from across the country. Can't do much about that, I reckon. In any case, I have a feeling that we can all get along in the long run.
US Airways is in a pickle...but we've been that way for a while and the company is still kicking. I don't believe that a merger with HP is a "desperate" move or that we will "drown" any quicker without it. I do welcome it as an opportunity to strengthen the bargaining positions and the future career prospects of two whole companies worth of employees.
Maybe HP doesn't "need" US. I know they themselves had a bad run for quite some time and it didn't appear that they thought they had what you would call "stellar managment" either. Hopefully that has changed and, if we are to merge and be managed by the HP folks, I hope they are sincerely interested in running an airline.
I reckon I'd like to keep my seniority. It's only 2.5 years and I've been furloughed since Jan. '03, but it's about all I have left of what I had hoped would be a long career with US Airways. It's a moot point for the flight attendants anyway. the AFA-CWA constitution provides for DOH integration. I'm sure there will be pissed off people on both sides but they'll probably want to move on and get over it rather than spend the rest of their careers being bitter.
Frankly, if that's what is going to be on people's minds for the next 10-20 years I'd just as soon both airlines take their chances going it alone. I have friends at AA that turned real ugly with that whole TWA deal and that's one wound that ain't ever gonna' heal.
Anyway, I happen to like it in Philly. Boston and Washington, DC and New York are all better cities than PHX and LAS, in my opinion. Y'all come on out...we'll have fun. I think the idea of the rush into the desert is a little far fetched and the bigger issue would be how to make the combination work so that EVERYONE is actively employed and making enough to live on.
I'd like to say that I don't expect many of our most senior people, who typically fly trans atlantic trips, to go running off to PHX or LAS. Sure there are a few that probably live out there and would rather be based there. Maybe there are some former CMH people at HP who would like to head back east. I've noticed HP recruits (inflight) almost exclusively in the PHX area while US hired from across the country. Can't do much about that, I reckon. In any case, I have a feeling that we can all get along in the long run.
US Airways is in a pickle...but we've been that way for a while and the company is still kicking. I don't believe that a merger with HP is a "desperate" move or that we will "drown" any quicker without it. I do welcome it as an opportunity to strengthen the bargaining positions and the future career prospects of two whole companies worth of employees.
Maybe HP doesn't "need" US. I know they themselves had a bad run for quite some time and it didn't appear that they thought they had what you would call "stellar managment" either. Hopefully that has changed and, if we are to merge and be managed by the HP folks, I hope they are sincerely interested in running an airline.
I reckon I'd like to keep my seniority. It's only 2.5 years and I've been furloughed since Jan. '03, but it's about all I have left of what I had hoped would be a long career with US Airways. It's a moot point for the flight attendants anyway. the AFA-CWA constitution provides for DOH integration. I'm sure there will be pissed off people on both sides but they'll probably want to move on and get over it rather than spend the rest of their careers being bitter.
Frankly, if that's what is going to be on people's minds for the next 10-20 years I'd just as soon both airlines take their chances going it alone. I have friends at AA that turned real ugly with that whole TWA deal and that's one wound that ain't ever gonna' heal.
Anyway, I happen to like it in Philly. Boston and Washington, DC and New York are all better cities than PHX and LAS, in my opinion. Y'all come on out...we'll have fun. I think the idea of the rush into the desert is a little far fetched and the bigger issue would be how to make the combination work so that EVERYONE is actively employed and making enough to live on.
If this merger goes down as it is currently imagined by all, one thing comes to mind as a result of the AA/TWA mess. A fence. Fence the US folks. And, fence the Hp folks. Until the dust settles no one will be crossing between the two work groups.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
acmech said:
acmech, I am sure there will be fences. One thing AWA employees need to keep in mind is that the number of people retiring and leaving US Airways is at an all time high. For example, the average age of a US pilot is 54; and there are only 300 (active) pilots at US under the age of 45. Theoretically, any AWA pilot under 45 could end up being an A330 Captain in their final years before retirement. Currently, pretty much all the A330's and 767s are flown by former PSA pilots. Something to think about.
Anyway, I happen to like it in Philly. Boston and Washington, DC and New York are all better cities than PHX and LAS, in my opinion. Y'all come on out...we'll have fun. I think the idea of the rush into the desert is a little far fetched and the bigger issue would be how to make the combination work so that EVERYONE is actively employed and making enough to live on.
And with the inflated real estate prices out there who could afford to move in right now?
Looks like those younger pilots at AWA will make out flying A330's/ 767's.
Must be nice.
I still think this sould be smoother than others.........
[post="264933"][/post]
[/quote]And with the inflated real estate prices out there who could afford to move in right now?
Looks like those younger pilots at AWA will make out flying A330's/ 767's.
Must be nice.
I still think this sould be smoother than others.........
B707B
Member
No one is even talking about this deal on the line, much less talking about moving to Phoenix. Most people here at U are married with and very settled in the East. No one is talking about moving, senority, or anything else. Relax, probably not gonna happen and if it does, everything will be fine.
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