New line maint stations opening

[lineguy43]

Glad to hear it!

FWIW, NW had mtx in all 3 prior to the AMFA strike. Do you know if DL has ever had them there?

As for DTW, that's not awesome.
 

 
Partially correct Kev...We had MTC in MSY and MCI but not BNA. I know cuz I was MEM based and would have to road trip it to Nashville when ever we had a mechanical there.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Guess these "DUES-PAYING UNION MEMBERS" were "Culled" also!
 
"United Airlines to lay off 688 flight attendants"[/size]Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2014/01/16/United-Airlines-to-lay-off-688-flight-attendants/UPI-53131389901135/#ixzz2qtC0zQuA[/size]  
 

"American Airlines could lay off 400 more workers at Okla. facility in early 2014!"

Yes I guess you could say that, but it would be done by seniority, they can bump and the company pays the moving expenses.

 

[Thomas Paine]

The difference between could and can makes no difference to a laid off non-union employee or laid off "UNION" employee!
 
Just admit it.............having a union does "NOT" protect you from company downsizing...........hell, it's going on at American as we speak!

Difference is in a Non-union company it doesn't matter how many years you have, they pick at random who ever they feel like picking. Even WT admitted that the policy changes from Station to station and from one week to the next.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no I did not say that at all.

DL's frontline (non-merit) policies are employee based and they don't change on whims. Unionistas want to try to argue that DL mgmt is some schizophrenic group but the employees of DL know better. That is why they keep saying no to unions and other airline employees keep asking for what DL employees have.

 

[Kev3188]

Don't change on a whim? You're kidding, right? Not only do the policies change, but so too do mgmt's interpretation(s) of them. In fact, they try to use that as a selling point. What "unionistas" want is equality in the workplace, consistent application of policy & procedure, and to no longer have their careers held in the balance by capricious managers/FSM's...

 

[Kev3188]

 
Partially correct Kev...We had MTC in MSY and MCI but not BNA. I know cuz I was MEM based and would have to road trip it to Nashville when ever we had a mechanical there.

Fair enough. I coulda sworn BNA was open for a short time. For some reason I remember it being staffed with really senior ex-ATL guys. SDF was open for a bit too. Maybe I'm getting the two mixed up...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Don't change on a whim? You're kidding, right? Not only do the policies change, but so too do mgmt's interpretation(s) of them. In fact, they try to use that as a selling point. What "unionistas" want is equality in the workplace, consistent application of policy & procedure, and to no longer have their careers held in the balance by capricious managers/FSM's...

no, I am not.

Even if DL changes policies, you haven't shown that other companies don't do the same and in fact they do; I have yet to see any evidence that DL changes anything any more regularly or "unjustly" than any other airline.

Change is part of life. Unions don't mean it won't happen. Non-union doesn't mean that change will be unjustly applied.

 

[Kev3188]

"Change" is one thing. What occurs at this airline is entirely different.

 

[southwind]

Difference is in a Non-union company it doesn't matter how many years you have, they pick at random who ever they feel like picking. Even WT admitted that the policy changes from Station to station and from one week to the next.

All I can tell you, from where I'm sitting is "EVERYTHING" is based on seniority!

Now if you had a company, lets say in Detroit, selling hot dogs on a street corner, that was manned by 2 people and all of the sudden people stopped coming to your stand and you were only selling 1/2 the hotdogs you were before, Would "YOU"

1.pay the 2nd dude to just stand there
2.lay him off, no questions asked
3. give him the opportunity to stay employed, by moving him to another street corner?

 

[WorldTraveler]

"Change" is one thing. What occurs at this airline is entirely different.

tell us a problem you see DL addressing as change, how you disagree with their strategy and what you would do differently.

 

[Kev3188]

I would start by trusting my workforce to perform the functions/make the decisions the company pays us to do...

I would also abide by the ROTR where it discusses embracing different styles of thinking.

I would treat Groupthink as the awful thing it is, and not something to leverage.


None of that currently happen very much in ACS.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Fair enough. I coulda sworn BNA was open for a short time. For some reason I remember it being staffed with really senior ex-ATL guys. SDF was open for a bit too. Maybe I'm getting the two mixed up...

Had friends at SDF and STL, I don't ever remember BNA. Seems that was an early RJ Casualty.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I would start by trusting my workforce to perform the functions/make the decisions the company pays us to do...

I would also abide by the ROTR where it discusses embracing different styles of thinking.

I would treat Groupthink as the awful thing it is, and not something to leverage.


None of that currently happen very much in ACS.

group think as in Jim Jones is bad.

agreement in mindset because it works is quite a different thing.

being a contrarian against what works is not going to find traction anywhere.

DL employees know what works for them and they work together to obtain the same goals the company has for them because of it.

unity is a good thing

 

[Kev3188]

Not when it's borne out of fear, or worse, resignation...

 

[topDawg]

Glad to hear it!

FWIW, NW had mtx in all 3 prior to the AMFA strike. Do you know if DL has ever had them there?

As for DTW, that's not awesome.

Nope Feel for those 40 guys. Honestly, that is a big reason why I wouldn't want to leave Atlanta. 
Most of the time when they DGS you, you can still move to another shop. Hard to do that outside of ATL. (MSP would be the 2nd safest place, but I'm sure they will Dallas it at some point......so maybe Mexico) 
 

So is DL going to lay off those positions?

 
They will take a voluntary leave as the last resort. Delta will offer an early out for DTW. Then see what happens. After that they will give everyone a list of opening to bid. If you don't want to bid then you get a package to leave. 

DL will undoubtedly do what they do in other overage/growth scenarios... allow people to bid into those stations - and there will certainly be takers - and then let the lowest seniority people bid where there seniority allows them to go.

Not long ago, LAX and SEA were both hiring in MTC. Not sure if they still are.

 
They have open AMT spots all over. 
Delta needs bodies in TechOps.... more should be coming out on this soon. (might be a lot of pissed off AMTs...but they will be okay)

good for US. If a position is open then DL employees can do the same.

The issue is when the position is filled.

DL NORMALLY doesn't do it but has in the past. Those affected in this scenario will know. We don't even know that DL is going to level DTW MTC since they have told employees a station is over as an incentive to get people to voluntarily bid out or take voluntary packages - without implementing a leveling process.

They don't do that WT. If they say 40 will go, 40 will go. 
 
The biggest question is will 40 go and 20-30 contractors come in. 
 

Yes we do. No matter how you slice it, those jobs are gone from DTW.

 
yep. 
At least for Delta. Who knows, may see some spots open for DGS. 

I was the senior lead at my last one. It was great. We accomplished more on one overnight check than I saw get done in a three-shift day in hangars. I liken it to a nascar pit crew. We were a very efficient team. Maintenance Control knew it and sent the work our way. Of course when it came time to cut, spreadsheet driven financial decisions ruled over subjective, sensible decisions.

I can only hope that Delta has seen some of that. I know that some of those same Maintenance Controllers are now in ATL... ;-)

 
generally Line does do quicker work than Hangar. I know they can generally get an engine change done faster if it isn't done in ATL/MSP

yet, DL has reduced staffing less than other companies. Companies pay unemployment insurance. THAT is a deterrent along with the ill will that pushing employees around creates.

Again, how many mechanics has DL moved since the merger - we're going on 6 years so the track record should be pretty apparent.

And what are the reasons for the reductions? Might it be because DL is reducing the number of older aircraft?

 
Its a reduction in RON/RAD. They may be trying to flow even more of those checks over the maint. bases than last year. IIRC they had a record number of RON/RADs done at the hangar in Atlanta last summer. 
 
The PSV lines slow down, or stop completely. So they are trying to fill those bays with more RADsRONs
 
while they are getting new to Delta aircraft, outside of the 739s, the other aircraft coming in (717s/M90s) are old enough that they aren't going to save on much MX time. 
and really, because the bulk of the 717s are growth(for mainline) aircraft, it is really covering up the removing of 757s with 739s. 
TechOps is a little thin as I said above. 

The real situation is that the bottom 40 are still going to have their lives disrupted and they wont have the seniority to hold those three cities even if they wanted too.

 
Welcome to the airlines. 
The only thing that would maybe happen is they get money to move. It doesn't sound like any of these guys will have to leave Delta. DTW? yes, but Delta should have enough AMT jobs to go around. (and it doesn't sound like they are going to get **** canned into a high cost station. I bet all of them will get offered a spot in ATL and or MSP along with other line stations.) 

Could it be that they have kids from school with no licenses and no experience working for free and they make their Licensed mechanics who have no Union protection or ASAP program signing off their work? Oh thats right, you dont know, have to ask a mechanic, but somehow you know the reason why they have the lowest maintenance costs per ASM.

I don't know why this keeps coming up. Yes, Delta does have the ASM program, but out of like 12,000 people at TechOps I think ASMs are like 2,000 system wide. (compared to like 7,000-8,000 AMTs.) 
A good bit of work that is done by ASMs is sent out of house at other airlines. (IIRC UAL, for example, doesn't do the cabin work in house that Delta does with ASMs) 
 
also, things like plane washing, parts washing etc. Are done by non-A&Ps. Again, this is work that would simply be gone if it wasn't for the ASM/MUE program. 
Also, till recently Delta did a good job of flowing the ASMs with there tickets up to AMTs. Its getting a little back logged but it sounds like its going to be addressed somewhat. (and thats not all Delta's fault, people just aren't leaving as fast) 
 
as for the singing, I don't know how it works for sure once the cards leave the floor, but at Delta you sign with your employee number for you work. AMT or ASM. I haven't ever seen an AMT signing for work done by an ASM. (of course, I don't know how it works once things get upstairs or outside of ATL) 
So if an ASM does a filter change on an engine, the ASM signs his name and his employee number. If an AMT does the same work then the AMT signs his name and employee number. 
 
 
I mean I know you hard core pro-union guys just hate the idea of having someone without an A&P working on airplanes or even in the hangar.....and your just as out of touch with reality as the outsource everything group. Delta has a great balance of it and it has saved a ton of work that would be gone if it wasn't for those jobs. Delta is sucking with the influx of contractors for sure....but they do a good job with the ASMs. Its not like the bulk of a PSV line is done by an ASM. 
 
Of course some of you guys also think 60 bucks an hour is only fair too. stupidity like that is a big reason why the craft is dying. 

no, I am not.

Even if DL changes policies, you haven't shown that other companies don't do the same and in fact they do; I have yet to see any evidence that DL changes anything any more regularly or "unjustly" than any other airline.

Change is part of life. Unions don't mean it won't happen. Non-union doesn't mean that change will be unjustly applied.

in this case it would be laid out in the contract how things would be done. That would be it. SCOPE would be SCOPE. Work rules would be work rules. etc. etc. Thats not how it is at Delta. At the end of the day you do what your told. (but! on my side at least, they don't tend to make crap up on the fly. Sure you may have a crap head lead or foreman, but I see a lot more rules broken than taken advantage of.) 
 
but I have heard my fair share of stories from the ramp. 
 
Delta seems to change how they handle reductions every time it happens. Generally it depends on the size of the cutting. 
 
During BK they did more bumping and such because of the large scale of people heading out the door and stations closing, reducing etc. Now days they do a good job of finding a job or adding a spot in a different shop that needs the help. 
 
A good example, The contract bays had to lose 60 AMTs when World left. So Delta added 60 AMT spots in back shops, the engine shop, Test cell and PSV bays. I don't believe anyone had to leave Atlanta. Heck some of those guys were happy to get to move to the Engine shop/cell. (no idea why....but that seems to be a dream job for a ton of people) 
now if 1,000 people had to go.... more than likely they would have allowed bumping and stuff like that. (could be ATL only or system wide) 
 
I, personally, don't have a preference. I like that they really try to inconvenience the least amount of people possible, but on the flip side I'd be pretty pissed if I could hold a spot in say MCO but got stuck going to LGA/LAX/JFK while someone 10 years junior to me is holding a MCO spot.
 
Also Delta does look at the ripple effect. The way they are handling DTW wont effect the company like allowing bumps would.