New line maint stations opening

[WorldTraveler]

no I didn't. I said "ownership costs" - go reread the post and do it with an attitude of wanting to have a conversation instead of to argue. Ownership costs include lease payments, depreciation, and amortization depending on the specific ownership of the asset.

Even in 2010, DL was paying less than $100K in lease payments on the 744s. US' 321s alone were more than 60% higher.

The industry average for ownership costs for US carrier 777s was 3X higher than what DL was paying on the 744s and 2X higher than the average for even the 767.

The 744 makes financial sense because there are very low costs for leases or payments to banks because no one wants the 744.

With about 100 more seats than the 777 in DL's config, the extra cost of fuel is not as big of a deal.

I'm still waiting for confirmation that the 744s are hangar queens.

We do not they don't cost DL near as much to operate as alot of people think.

 

[700UW]

Probably has to do with the fact that the 744s are paid for...

Your words, paid for, if you dont own them they arent paid for they lease all but four, not owned, not paid for, if you lease something you have to pay for them.

 

[WorldTraveler]

read again for comprehension and not with the intent to crucify someone and you will see that I didn't say that DL paid off the notes.

I told you above what total ownership costs include.

Give it a rest.

your attempt to prove me wrong backfired.

And you wonder why DL employees want nothing to do with any labor union that has you as a cheerleader?

 

[700UW]

Your post your words, you are lying again, it seems you cant comprehend what you post:

Probably has to do with the fact that the 744s are paid for...

 
 

read again for comprehension and not with the intent to crucify someone and you will see that I didn't say that DL paid off the notes.

 

[WorldTraveler]

holy smoke.... where in that statement does it say that DL paid for them?

You tried to jump on a concept that you didn't understand and still don't in order to prove someone wrong and you can't admit you were wrong.

But let's keep in mind this is the same person who argued for years that defined contribution plans are not pension plans even though the US Dept. of Labor and the IRS says they are.

 

[700UW]

Put your glasses on, right here:
 

Probably has to do with the fact that the 744s are paid for...

And keep trying to change the subject.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Hangar queens? Got stats to back that up?

The cost data is sourced from DOT data and is reported a couple times per year in Aviation Daily.

 
 
Only the anecdotal evidence that nearly *every* 744 flight I've ever taken on Northwest/Delta has had an MX issue of some kind, and the fact that the 744 is on TLV is one of the (admittedly many) reasons my lovey valentine avoids working that flight
 
Happy Valentine's, btw!

 

[WorldTraveler]

most of the 744s fly thru NRT with the JFK-TLV flight the only one that doesn't fly the Pacific. I'm not doubting that the 744s maintenance record may not be as high as the 777 which set the bar very high... but the 744 is more than reliable for what it does and does get plenty of ground time to deal with necessary maintenance. Specific to TLV, the aircraft has a lengthy ground time in TLV because of the schedules, just as most US-TLV flights do. It is because of the long ground time, high capacity, and low CASM that the 744 is ideal for that route.

 

[topDawg]

and because they are paid for by the bank, NW was able to get much lower lease payments.
Is it too hard for you to grasp that a 20 year old aircraft costs less regardless of who holds the title?

You proved nothing other than that you try way too hard to prove people wrong and end up making yourself look, well, like a/n ..............

 
 

So you are saying when they closed and/or reduced ANC, CVG, DTW, MEM, MSP and other stations that not one Delta employee was laid off and hit the streets?
 
Your mouth is writing checks your body cant cash.

Delta hasn't had a non-front line involuntary lay off in almost 10 years. That is what WT means. (its the company party line)  
 

   

What do you mean by this? The 777 needs less Pre Departure Checks than other airplanes? The 777 needs less Service Checks than other airplanes? The slats and flaps need less grease? The heavy and time checks are spread out longer?

How does the Delta fleet rank for reliability? Can you show that to prove your statement?

just a note, this wouldn't be done in DTW. ATL does the PSVs....or it gets sent to a vendor. (soon to be mexico) 
 

yeahIdidcuzursmart.

DL FAs have never been union members. there is nothing to resecure.

 
errr damn near half of them have been in a union. 

 

I guess easy not to care when it's always happening to someone else at some other station.

The company is also quite masterful at spinning those types of things into "good news stories."

basically. If it isn't them then they don't care. 
Just like the engine shop guys. "what?! screw the hangar....send all the work out you want....just don't take the 219 line!" sure enough.......
 

dawg,

Í'm not a Wall Street type. Never lived or worked there or worked for a finance company.
what did you do for Delta? if you sat in an office.....you might be a wall street type
Obamacare doesn't apply to workers in Mexico. That's why it makes sense to create jobs there but not here.
excuses excuses. 
you keep trying.....but its simple. The Company does want to do it. simple as that. Its not a cost or a time thing. They have all but said it. (but they don't try as hard as you do to toss s**t against the wall) 
Again, DL has contracted out airframe overhauls for several years. They aren't giving away any more work by doing it at a base in Mexico where they can control the process, gain a percent of the profits that the center gets for doing the same work for other airlines, and for gaining work at the TOC for DL employees which they cannot do now.
right now they aren't. 
but things change. I fully expect the PSVs to go and MSP to shut down. ATL to be a shell most doing small checks. 
 
and again, it will not mean anything to TechOps. We can, and do, all the work that will be done in Mexico along with most things other airlines want. 
The Mexico facility will start by doing the same work that DL outsources now. Then they will go get contracts.
Oh so how does that help me? and how long will that take? smh.....don't take the bait WT. 
I'm sorry if you don't see that the Mexico facility is related to the ability of DL to win contracts that include work done at the TOC. The two are absolutely connected.
proof is in the pudding. Sorry, I know your not pissing on me this time, but i am already swimming in piss. contractors. Overhauls. Tampa. Dallas.......so much horse crap.... why should i buy in now? 
 
and from a management that has said nasty things about employees(Ed) and shut down NW's maintenance (the new COO, and Anderson)  
Market trends in any city regarding RJ flying all have to roll up and they do into DL's overall trend of shifting flying from regional carriers to DL mainline. The latest traffic report continues the trend. DL is shifting more flying to DL employees than any other airline in the US.
That part is true. 
The number of seats in the DCI fleet is shrinking and the number of large RJs is capped.
Also true to a point. 
It is your coworkers who don't have enough interest in unions to get any more of them seated at DL. You can come hammer away at your frustration here but your bone of contention is with your coworkers.
You and other labor supporters make no friends for your cause by saying that they are not engaged, can't think for themselves, or lazy because they don't support the goals you have. They are smart enough to weigh the issues and have decided unions are not in their best interest. 
 

 
I have made it clear I don't want any of the current unions. The IAMTWU/IBT and AMFA are useless. I do however don't want to hear about how they have to keep cutting cost from TechOps because we just made 3 billion. 

I'm sure you also know that DL uses contractors even at the headquarters? The reason why DL uses contractors is because they add to the workforce on a short-term basis in areas that cannot be justified on a long-term basis.

DL's use of contractors is precisely to protect the jobs of full-time benefitted employees which is precisely the idea of using RR employees. Again, tell us at how many airport locations DL employees work compared to their peers.

I've asked before but you and your labor supporters can't admit that DL is providing more security and more choices to its airport employees than other network airlines are doing.

How about a little real research and get THESE numbers posted.

That is the company spin line yes, just what they are doing now is bring in a batch of contractors......then in a little bit cut them....only to bring in more contractors. 
 
in other words, not short term. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for validating that half of DL's current FAs or more have been in unions at one time and yet they consistently vote against a union now.

If you equate any kind of management or supervisory level as a Wall Street type, then you are going to find a huge segment of the working population that is against you. I don't really think that is what you mean since you have a pretty good business minded head on your shoulders.

And I did in fact spend many years in frontline capacities and never worked on Wall Street or in any type of finance related company.

You can try to equate what happened to NW maintenance as a precursor of what will happen to DL - but what you fail to notice is that there was a contentious relationship that threatened to push costs EVEN HIGHER than they already were at a time when the industry desperately needed to cut costs across the board.

DL's fleet strategy requires having the maintenance capabilities DL Tech Ops provides and which could not be done on a long-term basis thru outsourcing.

The fact that DL is willing to take on older aircraft and keep maintenance says volumes about DL's confidence in its ability to work WITH its employees in order to be successful in comparison with other airlines that see the only alternative to managing their fleets as to eliminate as many employees from the process as possible by buying new aircraft.



Across the board, contractors were never promised a long-term gig or benefits.

I'd like to see a graph or data of contractors doing the same job in the same area on a CONTINUOUS basis.

Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Obamacare is the biggest single killer of long-term job creation. Companies are not going to add any permanent positions until the US government can figure out what policies they are going to enforce for health care and stick with them.

Companies CANNOT do any kind of financial planning with an unknown as large as Obamacare looming over their heads and everyday Americans who want a job with benefits will be the ones that will pay the price.

 

[topDawg]

thanks for validating that half of DL's current FAs or more have been in unions at one time and yet they consistently vote against a union now.
one vote and it was so close it wasn't funny. 
Get over it, let it go....move along WT. Its going to happen, not a damn thing me or you can do about it. (and i'd rather not see the FAs go union, somehow i feel it will just me i have to bend over........again) 
If you equate any kind of management or supervisory level as a Wall Street type, then you are going to find a huge segment of the working population that is against you. I don't really think that is what you mean since you have a pretty good business minded head on your shoulders.
I know I do. Thanks to the University of Georgia......still have yet to change a single thing i have said. 
And I did in fact spend many years in frontline capacities and never worked on Wall Street or in any type of finance related company.
you keep missing the point. Your all the same.
You can try to equate what happened to NW maintenance as a precursor of what will happen to DL - but what you fail to notice is that there was a contentious relationship that threatened to push costs EVEN HIGHER than they already were at a time when the industry desperately needed to cut costs across the board.
uh....They wanted things to be worse than they are now at Delta, IIRC...... I still, to this day, 120% support the AMFA strike. It is a sahme unions like the TWU/IAM helped NW screw them....and the craft. 
DL's fleet strategy requires having the maintenance capabilities DL Tech Ops provides and which could not be done on a long-term basis thru outsourcing.
has nothing to do with Delta. TechOps can do HMVs on any type in the fleet. Its not like its rocket science on the airframe side. This isn't engines or components. 
The fact that DL is willing to take on older aircraft and keep maintenance says volumes about DL's confidence in its ability to work WITH its employees in order to be successful in comparison with other airlines that see the only alternative to managing their fleets as to eliminate as many employees from the process as possible by buying new aircraft.
Ahem, they tried about as hard as they could to shop the PSVs around too. Just couldn't do it. The current admin is just hell bent on doing the HMVs outside. no matter how much money it cost. Why? people like you don't think its cool to do anymore. 


Across the board, contractors were never promised a long-term gig or benefits.
did say they were?
I'd like to see a graph or data of contractors doing the same job in the same area on a CONTINUOUS basis.
uhhhh.......I don't know how to prove it to you champ. Its not something that is published that I know of. 
Its happening. I know you don't believe it, but it is. 
Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Obamacare is the biggest single killer of long-term job creation. Companies are not going to add any permanent positions until the US government can figure out what policies they are going to enforce for health care and stick with them.
Maybe.....maybe not. It doesn't seem to bother AAR, TIMCO....etc. So......
Companies CANNOT do any kind of financial planning with an unknown as large as Obamacare looming over their heads and everyday Americans who want a job with benefits will be the ones that will pay the price.
weak. real weak WT.