New Card Drive Started @ AA--Mechanic and Related

[JimmyBop]

and the pitch WeAAsles takes a huge swing! oh but he falls on his ass from the miss.

"The data on this website is sourced from the U.S. Department of Transportation's Form 41 data product. It has been selected and analyzed to present a view of the industry and its important trends, as well as to identify fundamental drivers of success - and in some cases, the early signs of potential failure."

The airlines have nothing to do with it. As I have told you before, email the airline data project and ask them why they haven't updated the numbers.
Or pull the Form 41 data and figure it out yourself.

Doesn't the Southwest number of mechanics include GSE, Facilities, Aircraft Cleaners, etc?

 

[topDawg]

Doesn't the Southwest number of mechanics include GSE, Facilities, Aircraft Cleaners, etc?

no idea. WeAAsle's keeps saying "Maintenance Employees" so im not sure how that is defined and im sure it is probably different from airline to airline.

True AMTs per tail UA/DL/AA are all right there together. Delta is a little lower but has been for at least 20 years due to having a more flexible workforce. Even when 90% of work was in house it was that way.
But I know also Delta has engineers and IT people and sales people that probably do 95% of there work for TechOps but aren't considered Technical Operations for one reason or another. No idea how it works for the other airlines though.
With that said, Delta has facilities and cleaners that fall under Technical Operations. They also have some that fall under ACS. very situational.

 

[WeAAsles]

Few notes.
Its Air (space) Lines. I figured three and four letter words wouldn't be that hard for you.
Second I don't know what any of that has to do with anything I posted. You said something stupid about Delta "hiding" data, i attempted to point you in the direction of the data, and you came back with whatever word vomit that is. I'm going to take that as "I don't know how to get to and read form 41 data so let me deflect."
In which case, instead of posting whatever that is, AGAIN, email the airline data project and ask them. They are nice people and wont bite, I promise.

Oh and at least pre-COVID, American was also quite a bit bigger than Delta. If I remember right something like 100-200 planes. American also was a little bit more wide body heavy which is going to = more employees even if all the other variables were the same.
With that said, American does more of its own work that requires bodies. Airframe work will also need more bodies then engines and components. I wont argue that point.

*heavy sigh*
Okay a few notes again.

Air. Lines. Two words.

Second, Delta doesn't hide the PFE program. If you don't have experience then you work as a PFE for 6 months before getting directly hired. I don't necessarily agree with it, but at the same time, most of the other majors are wanting ~2 years of experience. The other thing is that most of the people in this program are still in school and/or don't have their tickets yet. PFE gives them a chance to learn and get some experience and then in a lot of cases get hired directly as an AMT instead of having to be a direct hire ASM till they get 2-3 years then being able to move up. The entire idea is it is a way for Delta to be able to hiring "greener" mechanics and not have quite as many issues as United/American/Southwest/UPS/FedEx.
Again, I'm not a huge fan of it, but the other option and what United/American are more or less doing, is sticking them at a regional for 2 years then hiring them directly. Both suck. Both ignore the entire point of the ASM type spots at the airlines but here we are.

But Delta doesn't hide it. Get on LinkedIn. They are posting **** about it all the time.

third.
DGS/Delta Global Services were the same company. DGS doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for a few years. PFEs come through Launch and STS.
The only DGS people TechOps had anything to do with were some of the retired guys that would come back as a contract/consultant deals. I'd assume you are smart enough to understand why a retired person would have to come back as a contractor/consultant.

either way, DGS is gone. I know they are still letting the retired guys come in and do some stuff, in a lot of cases its training up all the new people, but i don't know who they work for. Either way, that is yet another thing that is well known at Delta and around the industry. Sorry whoever is sending texts has no idea what they are talking about.

edit to add.
Remind me where is the PR from the TWU on doing these engines in house at American?

I don’t really care that much about Delta honestly. Again if you’re happy there congratulations.

 

[WeAAsles]

I bet you don’t see any news items or facilities like these at SWA.

American Airlines Announces $550 Million Investment to its Tulsa Maintenance Base

American Airlines announced today it will invest $550 million at its Base Maintenance facility in Tulsa (Tech Ops – Tulsa). It is American’s largest Base Maintenance facility and is an integral part of operating the carrier’s fleet of nearly 1,000 mainline aircraft safely and reliably.

news.aa.com

 

[1AA]

Unfortunately those individuals who support the TWU and bash other unions do not have to deal with the ever changing policies governing our aircraft maintenance procedures. They are not aircraft technicians and are looking in from the Montgomery Ward window while we deal with the real issues on the inside. Just let them keep yapping about one union vs another. Irrelevant at this point because regardless of which name is on the front door or unions on the property the liability, accountability and responsibility lies directly on the aircraft maintenance technician.
Back during the Bankruptcy AA farmed out the entire cabin service department and gave all the AA vehicles to the new contractors and slapped on a new company name over the AA logo. Go back a bit more and AA farmed out the wheelchair service to independent contractors. AA also farmed out our International security department. Now they are going after our facilities people at certain stations and in certain areas within major airports. Want go further? How about our building cleaners. This was all AA at one time. How much more will AA farm out? We already lost fuel tank entry work to contractors at most if not all stations. Don't get me started on work shifted from aircraft maintenance to fleet service.

 

[CorvetteMan]

And ALPA and AFA outsourced mainline flying to regionals.
No one is immune from it.

 

[topDawg]

I don’t really care that much about Delta honestly. Again if you’re happy there congratulations.

*brings up Delta*
answers dumb comments about Delta
*Well I don't really care about Delta*


*goes back to attacking AMFA*

Does the TWU/IAM pay you to carry this much water for them? what's it like being so loyal to a scab union?

I bet you don’t see any news items or facilities like these at SWA.

American Airlines Announces $550 Million Investment to its Tulsa Maintenance Base

American Airlines announced today it will invest $550 million at its Base Maintenance facility in Tulsa (Tech Ops – Tulsa). It is American’s largest Base Maintenance facility and is an integral part of operating the carrier’s fleet of nearly 1,000 mainline aircraft safely and reliably.

news.aa.com

er... Southwest just built or is building a new hangar in BWI and I want to say expanded space in HOU (old United hangar).

but good to see American replacing hangars they can't really use anymore.

 

[topDawg]

Unfortunately those individuals who support the TWU and bash other unions do not have to deal with the ever changing policies governing our aircraft maintenance procedures. They are not aircraft technicians and are looking in from the Montgomery Ward window while we deal with the real issues on the inside. Just let them keep yapping about one union vs another. Irrelevant at this point because regardless of which name is on the front door or unions on the property the liability, accountability and responsibility lies directly on the aircraft maintenance technician.
Back during the Bankruptcy AA farmed out the entire cabin service department and gave all the AA vehicles to the new contractors and slapped on a new company name over the AA logo. Go back a bit more and AA farmed out the wheelchair service to independent contractors. AA also farmed out our International security department. Now they are going after our facilities people at certain stations and in certain areas within major airports. Want go further? How about our building cleaners. This was all AA at one time. How much more will AA farm out? We already lost fuel tank entry work to contractors at most if not all stations. Don't get me started on work shifted from aircraft maintenance to fleet service.

but but but but maintenance employees to tails......!

 

[CorvetteMan]

*brings up Delta*
answers dumb comments about Delta
*Well I don't really care about Delta*


*goes back to attacking AMFA*

Does the TWU/IAM pay you to carry this much water for them? what's it like being so loyal to a scab union?

er... Southwest just built or is building a new hangar in BWI and I want to say expanded space in HOU (old United hangar).

but good to see American replacing hangars they can't really use anymore.

Line maintenance not overhaul. Big difference.

 

[Kev3188]

Fact is, after NWAMFA no union has shown Delta's mechanics any reason to go union. Everything at Delta is either comparable or better than the union peps.

Same story for ACS. And it's not like it's a high bar to clear, either. The first union to get out of it's own way and read the room will gain 1000s of members pretty quick.

And also killing the topic discussion as well as chasing people away who in the past contributed a good amount of information. Now this board is on life support. Not much activity. I visit less frequent and see that there is not much to talk about.

It's all intentional, and all by design. This is a low-lift project to keep some JV team members busy and thinking they're doing something.

 

[1AA]

Line maintenance not overhaul. Big difference.

Is it really? Same job title, same responsibilities, same oversight, same company and one can transfer to line or overhaul. Same tools line and overhaul.
Big difference?

 

[WeAAsles]

Same story for ACS. And it's not like it's a high bar to clear, either. The first union to get out of it's own way and read the room will gain 1000s of members pretty quick.

It's all intentional, and all by design. This is a low-lift project to keep some JV team members busy and thinking they're doing something.

And every now and then some little kid feels the need to chime in from the back of the room cause he wants some attention.

 

[SWAMECH]

*brings up Delta*
answers dumb comments about Delta
*Well I don't really care about Delta*


*goes back to attacking AMFA*

Does the TWU/IAM pay you to carry this much water for them? what's it like being so loyal to a scab union?

er... Southwest just built or is building a new hangar in BWI and I want to say expanded space in HOU (old United hangar).

but good to see American replacing hangars they can't really use anymore.

Yes sir, that is correct. SWA just built or is currently building 6 new hangars all over. 3 of them already opened this year at Denver, Houston (the biggest one in Hou for international maint), and BWI. One other city is Las Vegas and I forget where the other 2 are but I believe one is in Cali somewhere. The 6th one could be Chicago but not positive going by memory here. A possible 7th location is being discussed now with leaders and AMFA to be selected some time in 2023.
All these new hangars are the largest maint expansion in the history of SWA and AMFA is proud to be a part of it. No other union has been as successful as AMFA has in expansions and headcounts and bringing maint in house PERIOD. The teamsters were the worse letting go of several heavy lines over seas and even our most coveted 4 lines of "C" check that AMFA was successful in getting back along with the addition of the 2nd and 4th overall line of Heavy Maint in Dallas. Not to mention head counts have more than tripled since AMFA took over from the teamsters, maybe even quadrupled... Don't let these fools try and send out any misinformation. They always seem to increase 10 fold when so many airlines are now interested in getting AMFA (4-5 now) with very good progress thus far. Still holding out for the AA'ers to get it done this year or next, and soon Spirit will join with JetBlue following later and Frontier will also get merged into AMFA if they win the bid to purchase Spirit.
These guys are just hell bent and so pissed off that AMFA is expanding in the airline industry within the Mechanics Class and Craft so well right now it's killing them and their puppets string holders at the top.
On top of all that SWA is still currently hiring Mechanics for several different stations all over even after crossing the 10K new employee hires since the start of 2022. All this headcount, expansions, and positions being added as well as the maint work added in house this year is a no brainer who will continue to represent the Mechanics at SWA for a long, long time coming in the future for sure...

 

[SWAMECH]

but but but but maintenance employees to tails......!

Yea, they love to try and sell the "strength in numbers" even to this day. It simply does not matter. Unity is what matters, period.
Having over staffed mech to a/c is just a way to show how inefficient they really are. Yes we have way more flexability for sure which is why SWA can function with a lesser heads per a/c.

Is it really? Same job title, same responsibilities, same oversight, same company and one can transfer to line or overhaul. Same tools line and overhaul.
Big difference?

That's the industrial union's mentality, line mechs against overhaul mechs. You ARE correct a mechanic is a mechanic rather a/c, facilities, plant maint, GSE it does not matter. But, the a/c mechanics carry way more responsibility as do the line and overhaul mechanics as you stated. These morons love to divide and conquer from within, pretty sad isn't it???

 

[WeAAsles]

*brings up Delta*
answers dumb comments about Delta
*Well I don't really care about Delta*


*goes back to attacking AMFA*

Does the TWU/IAM pay you to carry this much water for them? what's it like being so loyal to a scab union?

er... Southwest just built or is building a new hangar in BWI and I want to say expanded space in HOU (old United hangar).

but good to see American replacing hangars they can't really use anymore.

I moved off Delta a long time ago now. It’s a Company that’s too full of themselves and needs to feel they’re always the prettiest girl in the neighborhood. That goes for the employees as well. They’ve been conditioned by the Company to buy into the narrative. Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah. Even when your Company cut back your hours while the Fed was paying your salaries and the Company took that cash into their pockets you still cheered them on. Wow!!!

Thankfully not all Unions are wasting their members dues money on hopeless causes. Delta is a hopeless cause. Have fun carrying that water. Hopefully you always feel your benevolent Masters are showering you with beautiful dresses and perfumes.

And congratulations on your new Aircraft order. New Planes needing less maintenance.