Negotiations........why?

[Overspeed]

700UW,
The TWU negotiation team prior to BK used to have their laptops open doing who knows what. Is that not allowed with the IAM?

 

[1AA]

You will have to ask the IAM, the TWU and the NMB for your answers, I do not work for any of them.

Gee, that's not the impression you've been giving us.

 

[MetalMover]

700W
 Can you answer a few simple questions that I can't seem to get answers from my local.
 
 1. Why did the TWU agree to the Association?
 2. What benefit will the average TWU member see with the Association that it wouldn't 
 have seen with any other form of representation?
 3. Why did the questionnaire that the TWU/IAM released  say that the membership would 
 get to vote & then reverse that answer?
 4. Is it true the Association will be a committee of an even number of reps from each union,
with an additional member from one union who will be classified as the chairmen of the Association,
 and hold that position for 2 years. The next 2 years the chairman position will be held by a member of 
 the opposite union?
 5. How did the Association decide that the first two years (the JCBA years) would be chaired by the smaller
 union (as far as AA is concerned) ?
 6. Why does the smaller union have the same number of seats on the association?
 7. Has the clock started on the first 2 years yet? If not when?
 
 I would appreciate your response to these questions, but only if you respond to all 7 questions

Please, please, can I answer??????????
 
1. The TWU agreed thanks to Little..He sold us out by agreeing to the association at the request of Trumka of the AFL/CIO...
2. The benefit to the The average TWU member is nil. It is based on the decades old philosophy of "strength in numbers!" How has that worked out for us to date?
3. We did not get to vote because WE WERE LIED TO.  The TWU's answer was that the judge decided a vote was not necessary.
4. The IAM will be in charge the first two years. But remember this.....IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT IS BROUGHT BACK TO A VOTE, THE LAA TWU MEMBERS CAN VOTE THE POS DOWN.......HANDILY!
5. The TWU decided the IAM would go first because it really does not matter which crap union goes first. They are used to selling us out.
6. The smaller union has the same representation numbers because the TWU is not looking out for the best interests of it's members. The only time the TWU cares about size is when they need TULSA to pass a crap contract.
7. Yes the clock has started. We might very well still be negotiating in two years. Then the TWU takes over and we can be sure to get screwed once again.

 

[Vortilon]

AP Tech,
How are the professional negotiators doing over at Southwest? Three years and counting. Just asked for a mediator and most airlines last what? 18 months? 24 months? How long has UA and the IBT been in mediation? 36 months? Southwest AMFA could not be seeing a TA until 2017/2018.

 
I'll take a shot at this one.  Here's the deal, The AMTs at SWA are already the highest paid airline AMTs with a nice benefits package, and profit sharing to boot.  It's critical to get a deal done; however, not yet dire as it is with us at AA.  Do you really want to know why SWA & UAL ATM contract negotiations are dragging out?  For you "yes" voters, don't look any further than your mirror.  

 

[700UW]

Just not feeling real secure with our negotiating team getting "trained" before going against professional negotiators....spells disaster, in my opinion...

The company doesnt have "professional negotiators", they use labor relations, finance and members of maintenance management.
 
And most people from the IAM side have been on the Negotiating Committee previously, and have years of experience.
 
And have actually worked under the CBA, and have been grievance reps or general chairman.

 

[scorpion 2]

The company doesnt have "professional negotiators", they use labor relations, finance and members of maintenance management.
 
And most people from the IAM side have been on the Negotiating Committee previously, and have years of experience.
 
And have actually worked under the CBA, and have been grievance reps or general chairman.

looked like a bunch of donut eating get out of work union lazy arses to me.

 

[CMH_GSE]

The company doesnt have "professional negotiators", they use labor relations, finance and members of maintenance management.
 
And most people from the IAM side have been on the Negotiating Committee previously, and have years of experience.
 
And have actually worked under the CBA, and have been grievance reps or general chairman.

I'll ask again, and I really want an answer.
Is this the same negotiating committee that fashioned the legendary " retroactive pay cuts"?
I think we have a right to know so we can all adjust our expectations accordingly.

 

[700UW]

That was in chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2002 and that contract was a final offer from the company as they filed chapter 11.
 
And no they arent the same people.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

looked like a bunch of donut eating get out of work union lazy arses to me.

HA HA HA HA HA.
 
+1

 

[CMH_GSE]

That was in chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2002 and that contract was a final offer from the company as they filed chapter 11.
 
And no they arent the same people.

Ok, so let's peel back the onion a little further.
That was...
2002

So this current negotiating team has "years" of experience.
What contracts, exactly have they negotiated?
Again, I think it's very educational to the members to know the negotiating prowess we have at the table.

 

[Overspeed]

Chuck,
You started this thread about negotiations and why? I saw your five minutes of negotiating technique. Not impressed. You asked Doug to just give the workers all the "good stuff" like wages, holidays, and VC back now and the TWU/IAM could then sort out the other issues later. Parker's response is exactly what it should have been. Why would he give all the stuff we want up without getting the CBA issues resolved as part of the deal? The company would have no leverage to get things like merged scope (huge to Parker) worked out since we would already have what we want? Let's reverse the situation, if Parker said, "Hey, how about the TWU and IAM use the IAM scope clause so I can start outsourcing engines now and then have all the line AMTs be fully cross-utilized now and I'll give you the pay real soon I promise." Would you do it? Parker needs the merged scope clause bad so he can start having US planes worked on in JFK with no added HC or reduce the overall on duty staff at LGA because we can both work each other's aircraft. It's not a concession like he said, but it means a lot to Parker. Like maybe a few hundred less AMTs on the line less. Maybe he wants to finally close PIT and send the work to CLT? Parker is the deal maker and has been negotiating with bankers, creditors, and Wall Street types for years now and has now successfully run little HP in to the world's largest airline. He is a professional negotiator and isn't going to give away leverage to make you feel better Chuck. And besides, doesn't the NLRA require him to negotiate with the authorized collective bargaining agent? Meaning the Association?

 

[700UW]

2005(two members on the NC, we never reached a deal in chapter 11)/2008/2014 CBAs.
 
Many of them have been shop stewards, local lodge officers, grievance committee members, General Chairman and a Grand Lodge Representative.
 
And they all have over 20 years company time.

 

[700UW]

Overspeed,
 
Airline workers are under the RLA, not the NLRA.

 

[Overspeed]

CMH_GSE,
Years of experience could be a good or a bad thing. Either they are set in their ways and won't challenge the company or they could be completely new and get taken by the company. Or they could be experienced at getting great deals and now what buttons to push or the could be inexperienced, savvy, and open to new types of strategies to get what we want. Experience and inexperience can work both ways.

 

[Hackman]

I sure hope it isn't the same IAm sellouts that were at Boeing in 2014, but we all know with the IAm it's one and the same with Buffy and the gang of sellouts. With the TWu in the same room, we all know what will happen... the concession train will be huffing and puffing smoke up our collective "association" arse. Like the past 30 years with the TWu, the concessionary BS contract sellout will "magically" pass by 51% and Buffy will declare again:
"The vote is over and it was counted under the eyes of the members," said R. Thomas Buffenbarger, president of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), which represents the Boeing machinists and other workers in the United States and Canada.
"The tally is what it is."
 
Industrial unionism 101....
 
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/01/machinists-union-rams-through-sellout-deal-at-boeing-2865054.html
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/us-boeing-777xvote-idUSBREA0513220140107