More Work

[AMFAMAN]

I find it humorous that you continue to mock the idea of pay for performance plan. Considering that everyone that is not in a union is paid based on their performance, you continue to show the incredible ignorance and lack of understanding that continues to contribute to the demise of unions today.

[post="251987"][/post]​

The demise of unions is do to the bootlicking by the top leaders of the industrial unions and the AFL-CIO. This is even acknowledge by leaders within the AFL-CIO. I do not see any demise in the craft unions, as your electrician, plumbers, carpenter, etc, rates continue to keep with the cost of living.

Now don't blame me for your poor career choice. I was not the one who told you to take a job that required you to be a yes man to the "man." It is obvious that your lack of negotiating skills made your pay by performance. Did you at least get 2 for 1 seniority? Better yet, why not oragnize your department, so you to can enjoy those union benefits.

Now I will never be foolish enough to agree to performance pay, but if you want we can go by shop rate just like auto mechanics. I'll be fair and go with the $125 an hour Mercedes shop rate. I figure with all the top talent driving Mercedes, it would only be right. A Mercedes is about $60k, a 777 is about $150 million, close enough. By the book, a tire change is 3 hours, generator is 5 hours, brake change 5 hours, A-check is 16 hours. I think it's fair, after all I don't see you complaining about the $500 brake job on the Mercedes.

BTW...if I get the work done quicker then the book says, you still pay the book hours just like on the old Mercedes.

 

[MCI transplant]

You would like to be that TWA person, wouldn't you. What in my previous post pi$$ed you off. The only thing I mentioned about TWA is that it was one of Carty's MANY mistakes. And I feel a lot of people will agree with my list of Carty's MANY mistakes and that he should not have been "paid for his performance" as Oneflyer likes to say.

[post="252020"][/post]​

<_< a.a.--- It's not that you've pissed me off! It just seems you have an unhealthy resentment about Carty buying TWA! Every other one of your posts refures to it!!!! Is it a resentment that Carty bought TWA, and not Eastern??? I don't know? But it's past history! A done deal! Let it go!!!!!!We all should be looking at ways to protect what little we have left! Not dewelling on things we can't change!!!

 

[Hopeful]

Don't kid yourself, it ain't that hard.

If it was that difficult, then there would be fewer people that could do it and wages would rise. Supply and demand. Uh, that doesn't seem to be working out too well for you.

[post="251990"][/post]​

Since when do people get compensated for how PHYSICALLY demanding his/her job is? It isn't that way.

If pay was based on physical difficulty, pilots would be making minimum wage!

 

[aafsc]

<_< a.a.--- It's not that you've pissed me off! It just seems you have an unhealthy resentment about Carty buying TWA! Every other one of your posts refures to it!!!! Is it a resentment that Carty bought TWA, and not Eastern??? I don't know? But it's past history! A done deal! Let it go!!!!!!We all should be looking at ways to protect what little we have left! Not dewelling on things we can't change!!!

[post="252075"][/post]​

You are right, it is done and over and we all need to try salvage whats left of our "careers?". I do have an unhealthy resentment of Oneflyer's statement regarding "pay for performance". Evidently his/her definition of "pay for performance" means that unionized workers or workers in general should never make more than the wage they start with. As I pointed out earlier, the ground handling contractors and US Air can't get people for the wages they want to pay but people like Oneflyer think that people should be on their knees willing to accept these crap wages. Oneflyer thinks the same with mechanics, you as a mechanic know what they pay in the third party hack shops.
But when it comes to "pay for performance" with management, they can continually make bad decisions yet the sky is the limit in terms of compensation for them, This is the way Oneflyer thinks and this was the point of my post. Carty's biggest mistakes were the fact that he did not see the "passenger revolt" festering in 1999 like I did and that he made matters worse by implementing more room throughout coach which meant that AA would fly it's 700+ planes around for about 4 years at a significantly higher cost. His failure to prepare AA in 1999 for the "passenger revolt" and making matters worse with more room in coach is, in my opinion, the biggest reason AA is where it is today. And congratulations on the lease signing; lets hope that the third party planes keep coming in.

 

[aafsc]

Since when do people get compensated for how PHYSICALLY demanding his/her job is? It isn't that way.

If pay was based on physical difficulty, pilots would be making minimum wage!

[post="252083"][/post]​

Well, we all know how much pilots make. We all know what A and Ps make. the rampers, agents, and F/As make the least out of all groups. But are you saying that I should still be making my starting wage of $6.85 and hour part ime after 15 years with AA? I have a relative that makes $2/hr more than me and he does a job similar to mine (he works in a warehouse in a crew chief like capacity). But his job does not require him to sign off a weight and balance final prior to aircraft departure. What I make is an average income. And an "average" income in places like NY, LAX, ORD, or SFO isn't all that great.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< I can't believe it!!!! For once we're both on the same page! Thanks for the lease thing, but it's really an empty gesture on the part of a.a.! The lease only covers our two 747 docks, and empty shop space. The rest is still month to month. They've already told us there will be another 350, to 400 AMTs going by June, so we're seeing 57, 58 year olds going out the door with 20+ years seniority! :down: These are people I've worked with for quit a few years! It's not easy to see them go!!!What a waste of talant!!!!! :angry:

 

[Bob Owens]

I find it humorous that you continue to mock the idea of pay for performance plan. Considering that everyone that is not in a union is paid based on their performance, you continue to show the incredible ignorance and lack of understanding that continues to contribute to the demise of unions today.

[post="251987"][/post]​

Oh really? So explain how all these non-union executives who are running all these companies into the ground get million$ in pay.

The world is not as simple as you.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Another day and still no twu supporter is denouncing OneFlyer's pay for performance post. :down: I guess they agree with the concept.

 

[aafsc]

<_< I can't believe it!!!! For once we're both on the same page! Thanks for the lease thing, but it's really an empty gesture on the part of a.a.! The lease only covers our two 747 docks, and empty shop space. The rest is still month to month. They've already told us there will be another 350, to 400 AMTs going by June, so we're seeing 57, 58 year olds going out the door with 20+ years seniority! :down: These are people I've worked with for quit a few years! It's not easy to see them go!!!What a waste of talant!!!!! :angry:

[post="252110"][/post]​

MCI, although we passionatley disagree and argue over seniority. I think that we are in total agreement on many things. I hate to see anyone laid off ( I myself will be laid off out of my city in a month) but are any of these MCI mechanics going to bump? I would think that with their seniority they could go to JFK, LGA, or another 25% city. As far as the MCI base, I think the lease gives AA flexibility; the 747 bays for third party work and the month to month part for expansion if needed. I also read in your MCIexpress paper that a scaffold was modified so it could accomodate a 767-200 and a 767-300. Maybe more work on the way? I am curious, do you all still have the engine shop and test cell for the Pratt and Whitney engines that go on the ex-TWA 757s? And I especially agree with your last statement regarding wasted talent. It seems that this government and the flying public (by demanding to fly for nothing) is willing to waste it's talented federally licensed aircraft mechanics. It is not obvious to them that the reason air travel has been so safe since the jet age is because of the work of the A and P's at all of the airlines (the ones still here and the ones long since gone).

 

[aafsc]

Another day and still no twu supporter is denouncing OneFlyer's pay for performance post. :down: I guess they agree with the concept.

[post="252117"][/post]​

While I am no cheerleader for the TWU, I have made my feelings well known about Oneflyer's "pay for performance" post.

 

[AMFAMAN]

While I am no cheerleader for the TWU, I have made my feelings well known about Oneflyer's "pay for performance" post.

[post="252122"][/post]​

Yes you have, and I certainly have enjoyed your posts but I am really talking about the team twu crowd. CIO, twuer, HSS and the rest of the anti-AMFA posters.

BTW...Maybe Oneflyer should pay you guys per the pound lifted. At a couple dollars per a pound, should make for a very profitable day considering several thousand pounds are loaded per a flight.

 

[aafsc]

Yes you have, and I certainly have enjoyed your posts but I am really talking about the team twu crowd. CIO, twuer, HSS and the rest of the anti-AMFA posters.

BTW...Maybe Oneflyer should pay you guys per the pound lifted. At a couple dollars per a pound, should make for a very profitable day considering several thousand pounds are loaded per a flight.

[post="252131"][/post]​

Now THAT would be "pay for performance."

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< aa----- First, no,I don't think these men can bump. From what I've heard, it works like this! By the contract one has to bumb the low man in the system. That man right now is in BOS. But, he is protected, we're not! So, even though we would have him beat, even with 4/10/01, we have only one chose,"the street"! Thank you TWU!!! :down: I used the term, 747 dock, but they can handle anything up to, and including 777s. The engine overhaul, was a seperate building. It has engine test cells, JT-8s, and one that we used for our RB211, and JT9 engines, and yes, the 757 engines! a.a. is letting it all go back to the City!

 

[Oneflyer]

Better yet, why not oragnize your department, so you to can enjoy those union benefits.

That is what I don't get, what are all these benefits I'm missing out on? The right to be lazy? The right to not have to come to work even though I'm not sick?

Listen, I can walk across the street to any number of companies and make what I'm making today. My earning potential is unlimited, its not written in some contract. If I don't like my boss, I give my notice and leave. If do my job better than others around me, I'll be promoted, make more money, and be given more responsibility. Tell me again how you have a better deal?

Listen, if I wanted to have a braindead job that allowed me to sherk my responsibilities and sit around a smoke in the break room all day when I'm supposed to be working, I'd have joined a union. That doesn't really interest me.

 

[Oneflyer]

The demise of unions is do to the bootlicking by the top leaders of the industrial unions and the AFL-CIO. This is even acknowledge by leaders within the AFL-CIO. I do not see any demise in the craft unions, as your electrician, plumbers, carpenter, etc, rates continue to keep with the cost of living.

I guess you were sick the day they taught economics in community college.

You are about as smart as a friggin monkey.