More Work

[Hopeful]

Well, we all know how much pilots make. We all know what A and Ps make. the rampers, agents, and F/As make the least out of all groups. But are you saying that I should still be making my starting wage of $6.85 and hour part ime after 15 years with AA? I have a relative that makes $2/hr more than me and he does a job similar to mine (he works in a warehouse in a crew chief like capacity). But his job does not require him to sign off a weight and balance final prior to aircraft departure. What I make is an average income. And an "average" income in places like NY, LAX, ORD, or SFO isn't all that great.

[post="252109"][/post]​

aafsc:

My comment is not a personal attack on any workgroup. All I am saying is that the physical challenges of any job does not automatically merit higher wages. Our society is one of class warfare where the "MONEY" people, the MBA's get the big bucks because of their degrees. Once they get their degrees, they get hired by Wall Street firms run by people with these "degrees." That's just the way it is. Everyone of us can say we deserve higher pay than the other work group. And we all do. I never have, nor do I now belittle any person for the career path they choose to take. I think EVERY work group should negotiate their own pay seperately from another work group.

Now, to answer your relative who makes more than you doing a similar job, this goes back to our union getting us to this state of despair. And our union's footsie playing with the company for the last several decades. We are the ultimate victims of class warfare and company/union collusion.

 

[mweiss]

Oneflyer, that has got to be some of the most ingorant vitriol I've read from a nonunion employee in these parts. What on earth is your problem?

 

[Vortilon]

In regard to Oneflyer and his comment:

They do it about as unproductively as humanly possible, thats how.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I have been around this company long enough to have seen just how hard many of the other employees work in other work groups. I gotta tell ya, there aisn't anybody busting their ass. That goes for management and union alike. Why should they? Hell, it was discouraged in the union ranks. As for management, a real go getter could be viewed as a threat and be dealt with one way or another. Who is to blame for this culture? It's not the employees caught up in it. You can't change the system overnight, or the attitudes of the employees. Bottom line is, the financial problems at AA are not the result of labor making poor decisions on when and where to put hubs, or which airline to buy. I could list many more examples of poor financial choices made by AAs leadership. Trouble is, guys like Carty are untouchable. Instead of getting fired for being a complete failure, he gets a golden parachute and a pat on the back for being a victim of mean labor groups. Put the blame where it belongs.

 

[aafsc]

With 15 years?! As a FSC at AA, can you bump any city your seniority holds, or do you have to bump the junior man on the system? What about going back to part time (probably not what you want to do; I'm just wondering if it's an option)?

[post="252314"][/post]​

Kev, I believe MCI is correct in that you have to bump the junior man in the system. But I believe you can fill any "vacancies" that exist at the time of the layoff, at least this is what they told me when I was laid off in 1992. As far as going back to part time, I have considered it but there are rumors going around, that AA might want to take medical benefits, etc. from part timers. It would not surprise me if they did and the union approves it because the union has always hated part time and they will throw certain groups (part timers) under the bus. I am at a line station now and am happy where I am at. Unfortunately, very soon I will be in a station that is less than desirable. People at line stations with 15-18 years (nAAtives because ex-TWA have 4/10/01 or 25% and are not the cause of these nAAtives getting laid off) are getting cut and being forced to large cities and hubs where the cost of living is higher and the work location is undesirable. I do have system protection but it is only part time protection because when I received the "protection" I was part time. Unfortunately, even though I got upgraded to full time, my "protection" did not upgrade with me. So in reality, someone with less seniority with full time protection can knock me back to part time.

 

[DFWFSC]

Im only as productive as the company want's me to be. If we only get 3 flights a day on our gate, then we work those three and maybe move over to cover another gate. If we get 7 flights on our gate during our shift we work 7!! The entire DFW operation is at the mercy of the DFW ramp tower and the "Tango" process. In all fairness to everybodys job function, I would like to spend a day or two at HDQ , maybe the route and capacity planning dept., then maybe a few of you HDQ guys could spend the day on my gate and see how things can go down the crapper quickly. I spent a day loading MD-80s bound for MEX/GDL with no other than Mr.Arpey himself. Very nice, down to earth guy. If he can do it, then you other HDQ guys can!!!.

 

[aafsc]

<_< Only if your a nAAtive! If your exTWA, you only have 100% of your seniority if your at MCI, or STL! 25% at about 5 stations (If a.a. well let you bid them!) and the rest of the system 4/10/01! And that's only if they're not "System Protected!" Because we're not! And yes! only the junor man in the system! And if he's protected, Your #### out of luck!!!!!! :unsure: I think????? I hope that clears it up!!!!!

[post="252316"][/post]​

MCI, I think you are pretty much correct. But I believe you can also fill vacancies. What AA usually does before a RIF is they freeze the transfers. Then they make a list of vacancies from around the system. Then they list these vacancies on the bump sheet. Of course, it depends on how many vacancies there are. I don't know how many mecahnics retire, quit, etc. in a month. When the last round hit my city, the affected people had a lot of choices on their bump sheet, but of course, we are fleetservice. All people (nAAtive and ex-TWA) had the ability to go to another city but some chose the street. I would think that the people who will be getting laid off in June from MCI would be able to bump the people who got laid off from MCI last time who went to other cities like JFK. After all, they are unprotected and the June furloughees from MCI will have more seniority.

 

[aafsc]

Im only as productive as the company want's me to be. If we only get 3 flights a day on our gate, then we work those three and maybe move over to cover another gate. If we get 7 flights on our gate during our shift we work 7!! The entire DFW operation is at the mercy of the DFW ramp tower and the "Tango" process. In all fairness to everybodys job function, I would like to spend a day or two at HDQ , maybe the route and capacity planning dept., then maybe a few of you HDQ guys could spend the day on my gate and see how things can go down the crapper quickly. I spent a day loading MD-80s bound for MEX/GDL with no other than Mr.Arpey himself. Very nice, down to earth guy. If he can do it, then you other HDQ guys can!!!.

[post="252412"][/post]​

Very true. When I worked in DFW, I was on gate 8 (using thhe old gate numbering system) and we had the flights to ORD. Back then AA ran about 23 flights a day between DFW and ORD. I would work one flight after another to ORD. No breaks in between. I would be in the rear belly of the super 80 loading the last bags and look out and see the next plane waiting to come in to the gate. This was all day- nonstop. We had only our 30 minute lunch and that was it. Like you said the ramp tower basically controls how many flights are worked. And speaking of CEOs loading planes, I was told that Crandall would come out to DFW and load planes.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Another day goes by and still no Team twu response to Oneflyer's Pay for Performance.......

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< a.a. Thanks for the information! It do'es get a little confusing at times! As for myself, and most people I know here, if, and when our time comes, we won't be going anywhere! The people here that are left have been arround a while, and have our families, and lifes pretty much intrenced here! So, most will just retire. Word has it that a.a. will be offering "stand in sted" again, and I expect quit a few will take them up on it! I believe this is all part of a.a.s "Big Picture" for MCI. Ring out as many Old timers as posable, and back fill them with younger workers if something should materalize in the way of third party work! ( Just my oppinon!)

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< a.a. Thanks for the information! It do'es get a little confusing at times! As for myself, and most people I know here, if, and when our time comes, we won't be going anywhere! The people here that are left have been arround a while, and have our families, and lifes pretty much intrenced here! So, most will just retire. Word has it that a.a. will be offering "stand in sted" again, and I expect quit a few will take them up on it! I believe this is all part of a.a.s "Big Picture" for MCI. Ring out as many Old timers as posable, and back fill them with younger workers if something should materalize in the way of third party work! ( Just my oppinon!)

[post="252632"][/post]​

That's the American way, I'm just glad you guys are soaking them for 13 weeks of pay on the way to retirement.

 

[MCI transplant]

That's the American way, I'm just glad you guys are soaking them for 13 weeks of pay on the way to retirement.

[post="252712"][/post]​

<_< A "Golden Handshack" would expidit things concederably! But you know that's not going to happen!!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

2 more days go by and team twu has still not denounced Oneflyer's pay for performance. :down: :down: I guess it will be part of the next concessions package.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev, I believe MCI is correct in that you have to bump the junior man in the system. But I believe you can fill any "vacancies" that exist at the time of the layoff, at least this is what they told me when I was laid off in 1992. As far as going back to part time, I have considered it but there are rumors going around, that AA might want to take medical benefits, etc. from part timers. It would not surprise me if they did and the union approves it because the union has always hated part time and they will throw certain groups (part timers) under the bus. I am at a line station now and am happy where I am at. Unfortunately, very soon I will be in a station that is less than desirable. People at line stations with 15-18 years (nAAtives because ex-TWA have 4/10/01 or 25% and are not the cause of these nAAtives getting laid off) are getting cut and being forced to large cities and hubs where the cost of living is higher and the work location is undesirable. I do have system protection but it is only part time protection because when I received the "protection" I was part time. Unfortunately, even though I got upgraded to full time, my "protection" did not upgrade with me. So in reality, someone with less seniority with full time protection can knock me back to part time.

[post="252402"][/post]​

Thanks for the info. Wow, TWA integration issues aside, this seems quite complex! Over on the U boards, I had asked the same question, and I believe they have a similar system to AA's. At NW, we can bump anyone on the system with less seniority.

 

[MCI transplant]

Thanks for the info. Wow, TWA integration issues aside, this seems quite complex! Over on the U boards, I had asked the same question, and I believe they have a similar system to AA's. At NW, we can bump anyone on the system with less seniority.

[post="253067"][/post]​

<_< Which it was at TWA before the buyout! And which it should be now!!!!!!!

 

[goingboeing]

<_< Which it was at TWA before the buyout! And which it should be now!!!!!!!

[post="253070"][/post]​

Why should you have the same seniority as a nAAtive employee?It is not our fault that you chose to be hired by TWA instead of AA.There is NO WAY that a 20 year TWA employee should have the same as a 20 year AA employee!