More Groups Wanting To Fire The TWU

[Tim Nelson]

I don't think Lee Seham was involved in those cases. That was probably Martin Seham. The firm though does have a track record of labor busting and heavily involved in union raids. Sometimes after they are booted by the in-house union or independent association.

what case does Lee Seeham have that involved in Labor busting? What is Labor busting?

Ive sat across from Lee in his office, a few years back, when we started the agw and he seemed not only brilliant but also very mindful of working people. His firm has done alot of pro bona work freeing workers from monopolies. If his firm didnt exist to serve pro union workers then there would b no competition.

 

[700UW]

The firm represented Alitalia and El Al against the IAM during a lockout and a strike.

They championed the b-scale in the industry and lost a major status quo case at Atlantic Coast Airlines when they first voted in AMFA.

 

[NYer]

what case does Lee Seeham have that involved in Labor busting? What is Labor busting?

Ive sat across from Lee in his office, a few years back, when we started the agw and he seemed not only brilliant but also very mindful of working people. His firm has done alot of pro bona work freeing workers from monopolies. If his firm didnt exist to serve pro union workers then there would b no competition.

 
It's just a tactic being used to soil the actions and names of the representatives that initiated the move to NAAP.

 

[swamt]

 
Having many groups hire the Law firm of Seham & Seham says they must be good at what they do and are respected more than the TWU lawyers are.
 
L. Seham is not an AMFA Lawyer he is a Labor lawyer, and those who are in the industry hire them to get a job done. He does that for money just as you come to work here at AA for money.
 
Everyone who needs legal info/help hires the best in their opinion and also by what they can afford to pay.
Locals 591&567 must of thought his law firm would do a better job than the TWU's legal team. Thats says alot in itself now doesn't it.

Yes it does.  The NFL referees and some MBL players have hired him as well.  Pretty sure these rather rich union groups has spent their time doing their homework prior to hiring him.  As an AMFA member working at SWA I will assure you he is expensive, but well worth it.  He does get results for the membership.  If you have ever seen him in action he does very, very well as a professional, and when needed he becomes a pit-bull and can make the other side look like fools and in complete embarrassment, it is fun to watch indeed...

 

[WeAAsles]

For a very long time we had been warned about problems with Seham by many others including the Teamsters (their opinions of Seham are not printable), SWAPA (the Southwest pilots' union, who terminated their relationship with Seham just this year for "incompetence and billing irregularities"), APA (the Allied Pilots Association, who fired Seham for a variety of issues including pro-management business relationships), to numerous respected individual labor and RLA attorneys who are aware of Seham's poor reputation among labor advocates. These concerns were relayed to us over time and we took each of them into consideration along the way by doing our best to investigate them and assigning some level of veracity to each of the claims. Each of these concerns with Seham were addressed openly and proactively with him in an attempt to correct problem areas and to stay on track. The efforts to resolve them internally were not successful.

http://www.transformdpa.org/2011/11/presidents-message-lee-seham-issue.html

 

[Bogey]

It's just a tactic being used to soil the actions and names of the representatives that initiated the move to NAAP.

The TWU way!

 

[swamt]

The firm represented Alitalia and El Al against the IAM during a lockout and a strike.

They championed the b-scale in the industry and lost a major status quo case at Atlantic Coast Airlines when they first voted in AMFA.

C'mon 700.  You know how many years ago this was?  You are digging way back to find the negativity, just as others and maybe yourself did the last time this firm was discussed.  We all also know that it has taken many TWU represented mechanics at AA to hire Seham to get their freakin jobs back with back pay because the lousy TWU didn't or wouldn't, now that says alot.  Yes, mechanics have hired outside attorneys (Seham) to save their jobs at AA while being represented by the TWU.  I think this also has happened at UAL while under teamsters or IAM, as well as at other airlines.  Try showing some more recent cases by Seham's group while Lee's been heading it up.  

 

[swamt]

 
It's just a tactic being used to soil the actions and names of the representatives that initiated the move to NAAP.

Correctamendo...

 

[Tim Nelson]

The firm represented Alitalia and El Al against the IAM during a lockout and a strike.
They championed the b-scale in the industry and lost a major status quo case at Atlantic Coast Airlines when they first voted in AMFA.

i know back in the day (30 years ago) that Mr Seeham had some clients that werent necessarily pro labor but Lee has been solidly with Labor and i dont believe his expertise with the RLA has been compromised. His firm is a legitalternative to those who feel a change in unions is necessary. And they have an incredible conviction for union democracy and drafted an incredible constitution for the agw...all pro bona. Amfa had an issue that it may be conflict for his office to represent agw and amfa since there were overlapping job duties between fleet service and mx depending on airline, so agw was dissolved. I was excited about the agw and the prospect of a craft union for rampers but it wasnt meant to be, so i got back involved with the iam. Lee and petersen were incredibly professional.

But i can certainly understand the reason why those 3 twu groups are working with Seeham. Big unions have a strong tendency to not communicate and to b incredibly arrogant.

The iam has a solid constitution but the intl has to do a better job policing districts that dont hold up the constitution. I was glad that EF and TB recognized that with the last favorable ruling in my favor against dl141.

 

[700UW]

To disclose what the Seham law firm gets from AMFA and whether he knows that the Seham firm has long represented airline managements in opposing workers and their unions. According to a source inside the labor movement,  Martin Seham and/or Lee Seham have represented Varig Brazilian Airlines on a continuing basis; the Sperry Gyroscope Company against the Engineers Association; Pan American Airways against the Seafarers International Union of North America; Vantage Steamship Corporation against the National Maritime Union of America; Maritime Overseas Corporation against the Masters, Mates and Pilots and the International Longshoreman’s Association; and Jackson Engineering Company against the Marine and Shipbuilders Workers. And The Seham firm also has represented El Al Israeli Airlines, Air Lingus, SAS Scandinavian Airlines, TWA.  Mt. Vernon Tanker Company, Seatrain Lines, Inc., Delta Steamship Lines, Zapata Bulk Transportation, Inc., Wabash Transport, the Maritime Association, Airfreight Express Limited, A. Millner Company and the Owners Committee on Electric Rates.

 
http://workinglife.typepad.com/daily_blog/2005/08/wake_up_press_w.html

 

[WeAAsles]

i know back in the day (30 years ago) that Mr Seeham had some clients that werent necessarily pro labor but Lee has been solidly with Labor and i dont believe his expertise with the RLA has been compromised. His firm is a legitalternative to those who feel a change in unions is necessary. And they have an incredible conviction for union democracy and drafted an incredible constitution for the agw...all pro bona. Amfa had an issue that it may be conflict for his office to represent agw and amfa since there were overlapping job duties between fleet service and mx depending on airline, so agw was dissolved. I was excited about the agw and the prospect of a craft union for rampers but it wasnt meant to be, so i got back involved with the iam. Lee and petersen were incredibly professional.

But i can certainly understand the reason why those 3 twu groups are working with Seeham. Big unions have a strong tendency to not communicate and to b incredibly arrogant.

The iam has a solid constitution but the intl has to do a better job policing districts that dont hold up the constitution. I was glad that EF and TB recognized that with the last favorable ruling in my favor against dl141.

Tim did you read my posting that was dated only 3 years ago from the then President of the USAPA? I'm sure that the firm has done good work for individuals and maybe even organizations in the past that cause people to keep hiring them. But it seems at least from this one man's writings that they still have some areas of concern?

Perhaps some on this thread would like to point out what their successes have been in the last few years at assisting labor?

 

[700UW]

WeAA,
 
Tim wont speak bad of him as he used him to help create is raiding organization against the IAM and TWU, Seeham's area of expertise.
 
He has worked for raiding organizations just like his Dad did.
 
AMFA, PFAA, AGW, USAPA.
 
Do I need to say more?
The APA and both USAPA also fired the firm.
 
They created the B-scale at AA, he, his dad and his firm are no friends of labor.

 

[Tim Nelson]

WeAA,
 
Tim wont speak bad of him as he used him to help create is raiding organization against the IAM and TWU, Seeham's area of expertise.
 
He has worked for raiding organizations just like his Dad did.
 
AMFA, PFAA, AGW, USAPA.
 
Do I need to say more?
The APA and both USAPA also fired the firm.
 
They created the B-scale at AA, he, his dad and his firm are no friends of labor.

so u are ascribing Martin Seeham to pinning the B scale on the TWU ramp with the first ramp airline contract that recognized the B scale? The TWU pioneered the B scale for rampers, not SeeHam, when it agreed to the B scale in return for automatic recognition for eagle without one eagle employee voting.

Look, im not defending Seeham, maybe he has shady clients, but i can certainly understand members who consider that lawfirm. Imo its an expert firm on the rla and offers a very competitive alternative to those 3 groups who chose that path. I dont know the reason why those twu units chose that path but it appears that the twu used a heavy hand instead of trying to work with the local leaders.

The iam uses some suspect firms as well. And just because other firms like Tom Roth's firm or Gottliebs firm stamp labor on their forehead doesnt mean they havent done dirty deeds for management while representing workers.

 

[700UW]

Actually it was the APA and Seeham at AA, not the TWU who were first with the B-Scale.
 
And no labor union should pay or use an attorney or any kind of specialists if they have worked against unions in their past or present.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Actually it was the APA and Seeham at AA, not the TWU who were first with the B-Scale.
 
And no labor union should pay or use an attorney or any kind of specialists if they have worked against unions in their past or present.

well, u certainly are giving seeham power to force the TWU into a contract that forced the B scale. I mean the iam'sTom Roth didnt force the AFA to do esop even though Roth sold the management snake oil to the iam members. And imo Gottliebs blatantly anti union letter to united iam members claiming that the iam is powerless if the outsourcing and ta2 was voted down, didnt mean usairways members had to take the same paths as United.

Bottom line 700 is that all these "experts" are not blue collar working people and will do what their clients lead them to do. I think Seeham has etiquette and a decent compass, you dont think that and you present your reasons. Fair enuf.