Mechanic & Related Mediation

[Interested]

Ladies & Gentlemen

There is no end in sight, it is time to jettison the TWU and get the lawyers involved we have no chance as long as the Intl want back us. sign the cards or go down with the ship quietly your choice.

And the Band played on!!!

NO VOTE NO PEACE!!!!

Are there not enough cards for a vote yet? If there is enough then what's stopping AMP from holding the tomorrow?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Informer is correct venting about job actions on this forum will only get you in trouble. If aa management isnt serious about paying us a decent wage which is long over due then maybe its time for the NMB to release us and the company to either come up with a decent proposal or file for chapter eleven. Every day without a contract is another day the company gets free labor. I read the proposal and this company actually thinks raises for May 2008, 2009, 2010 arent necessary or even a thought. It seems they believe the three years after the amendable date are nothing more than an exstension of the contract and we deserve nothing for working these past three years 0% 0% 0% is their answer. You know what to do. This is corporate greed at its best. Have a safe day and just remember what they are offering when you decide to go above and beyond is it worth 0% to you...

 

[eolesen]

Honestly, some of Bob's earlier comments could easily be interpreted as being said with a "wink-wink-nod-nod" tone.

That's been more than enough in the past to get an injunction filed. Might be a good time to stop worrying about making everyone happy, and shutting up instead of winding up in front of a judge...

And the rest of you.... try to remember what happened to Dennis Sanderson. Tone down the language (and the profanity, perhaps?...).

The forums are indexed by Google search pretty quickly, so anyone looking for discovery request fodder will easily see all of this.

 

[787nightmare]

Get rid of the TWU=elimination of a multitude of issues/problems.
And uh...there's no reason in the world why it would take 3 yrs for a contract under AMP.
Any union with a "set"(n/a to TWU), would get behind it's mechanics that are fed up and wish to impose "self help"!

You guys are the union! Are you listening TULE??(no one in particular here, btw)

 

[Bob Owens]

Honestly, some of Bob's earlier comments could easily be interpreted as being said with a "wink-wink-nod-nod" tone.

Well the thing is I dont have the authority to give a "wink-wink-nod-nod". Thats what was made clear in the 501, and other cases.

I express my opinions. If you interpret that as something more thats your position.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Well the thing is I dont have the authority to give a "wink-wink-nod-nod". Thats what was made clear in the 501, and other cases.

I express my opinions. If you interpret that as something more thats your position.

Just like the shAAred sAAcrifice was said with a "wink-wink-nod-nod". Bob, you have informed not only your members but those reading this forum. Keep up the good work. It is nice to know that you, Chuck, J.R. and other Presidents and ELECTED officers are putting the membership's needs first.

 

[chris perry]

Just like the shAAred sAAcrifice was said with a "wink-wink-nod-nod". Bob, you have informed not only your members but those reading this forum. Keep up the good work. It is nice to know that you, Chuck, J.R. and other Presidents and ELECTED officers are putting the membership's needs first.

One things for sure the company has dug themselves a mighty hole....its reaching the point of no return.I just wanted to thank Bob,and Chuck for their tenacity in the matter at hand. I come from a long line of mechanics in the family aircraft , automotive
and a gunsmith my grandfather. They all used to preach to me (do the job once the right way).Now we find ourselves caught in this save a buck today worry about it later, so I can get my bonus today corporate attitude. Its sickening and safety is suffering mabe not today but its coming....Talk about corporate no brain cells,i once worked a Rolls Royce car in dallas the idiot took it to Pep Boys for a brake job. The tech added dot3 brake fluid to a Mineral oil system, 8000.00 dollars later it was fixed.I ask him why he took it there.The famous answer it was cheap. So if the company wants cheaper I say go for it,your gonna pay!!!!!!!!!!

 

[strikeforce]

Are you clueless, because you obviously have no clue as to how negotiations are under the RLA. A DFR for not getting a contract...good luck with that one. Calling Bob Owens spineless when he is the only one who has provided us information is simply wrong. You want Bob, the baffoon as you called him, to call for an illegal action knowing full and well if he was to do such a thing that AA would have the union and many mechanics in court tomorrow. You want an illegal action to be called so that the union gets fined hundreds of millions and we get stuck paying off the fine in more concessions for years to come. You are either in magement or are just a complete idiot, or both.

I have a suggestion for you since you have no clue of how to be a union man...go into management so that you can be nonunion. They are hiring, and unless you are already a manager, you will fit right in with their nonunion ranks.

I know exactly how negotiations are run under the RLA.....it's one-sided towards business. We all know this. Besides the RLA, the company employs or hires educated professionals to conduct negotiations. Whether it's accountants, economists, psychologists, college professors, lawyers or math wizards, the company guys are trained and paid to outsmart our union guys. Plain and simple...directly or indirectly. The union, on the other hand, has fleet service clerks, stores personel, aircraft mechanics and a host of other trades to act as negotiators on our behalf. The TWU structure is set-up to fail by placing unqualified people in those positions. I'm not taking anything away from Bob Owens, but he is an aircraft mechanic trying to do the job of contract negotiator. Can't happen when you're going up against a multi-billion dollar company like AMR.

I never said Bob Owens doesn't provide me information, unlike the secret society of the Intl, but I expected more of a harsh response from Bob and the rest of the committee towards management and the mediator after receiving that POS proposal. A positive response and one that probably would have inspired some of our alienated members would have been to simply walk out of negotiations in showing our frustrations.
As far as a union man......The TWU is not a union, per se! The structure of the organization isn't democratic! The organization allows the "me" factor to fester, and I'm talking about the union officials more than the members. Some talk about the TWU kool-aid.....well, once inside the TWU secret society it's more like drinking champagne. It's the "what can the TWU heirarchy do for me so I don't have to go back on the floor" factor. How many of our ex-union officials are in management? Do you think legitimate labor organizations allow their union officials to cross the fenceline and go to work for the enemy? It's a big con game with the TWU, and ultimately WE are the big losers in this chess match.
Look, I'm not blaming Bob Owens for any of the problems the TWU heirarchy has created, and I do appreciate the fact that he is the only union official that consistantly provides us with information and his insights to the issues, but he is a TWU official and right now he has a target on his back. If he can't take the criticism then he should'nt be a union president, and he should'nt be on this forum. He's not the only union official getting an earful! It's all out of frustration with the structure of the TWU. The TWU needs to go!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

I know exactly how negotiations are run under the RLA.....it's one-sided towards business. We all know this. Besides the RLA, the company employs or hires educated professionals to conduct negotiations. Whether it's accountants, economists, psychologists, college professors, lawyers or math wizards, the company guys are trained and paid to outsmart our union guys. Plain and simple...directly or indirectly. The union, on the other hand, has fleet service clerks, stores personel, aircraft mechanics and a host of other trades to act as negotiators on our behalf. The TWU structure is set-up to fail by placing unqualified people in those positions. I'm not taking anything away from Bob Owens, but he is an aircraft mechanic trying to do the job of contract negotiator. Can't happen when you're going up against a multi-billion dollar company like AMR.

I never said Bob Owens doesn't provide me information, unlike the secret society of the Intl, but I expected more of a harsh response from Bob and the rest of the committee towards management and the mediator after receiving that POS proposal. A positive response and one that probably would have inspired some of our alienated members would have been to simply walk out of negotiations in showing our frustrations.
As far as a union man......The TWU is not a union, per se! The structure of the organization isn't democratic! The organization allows the "me" factor to fester, and I'm talking about the union officials more than the members. Some talk about the TWU kool-aid.....well, once inside the TWU secret society it's more like drinking champagne. It's the "what can the TWU heirarchy do for me so I don't have to go back on the floor" factor. How many of our ex-union officials are in management? Do you think legitimate labor organizations allow their union officials to cross the fenceline and go to work for the enemy? It's a big con game with the TWU, and ultimately WE are the big losers in this chess match.
Look, I'm not blaming Bob Owens for any of the problems the TWU heirarchy has created, and I do appreciate the fact that he is the only union official that consistantly provides us with information and his insights to the issues, but he is a TWU official and right now he has a target on his back. If he can't take the criticism then he should'nt be a union president, and he should'nt be on this forum. He's not the only union official getting an earful! It's all out of frustration with the structure of the TWU. The TWU needs to go!!!

A lot of people have misconceptions as to who the company has at the table. Sure they have finance guys but all they do is answer questions and I'm sure a lot more other people behind the scenes planning their strategy but the majority of the negotaiations from their side of the table is done by HR who are former Fleet Service Clerks, mechanics etc. (Sadly many are ex-union officials). In fact Weel (former Fleet Service clerk) was missing this week and the company was almost in complete dissary. They missed articles, screwed other ones up, there were errors and omissions throughout.

While I think its good to have professionals to supply advice and information most of this stuff needs to be handled by people who actually work under the rules. Try reading another groups contract, you probably wont really know exactly what all of it means, there will be parts where you would need someone who works under it to explain, and its not because its legalspeak, but rather because it applys to their conditions.

I've worked hard to change the structure of the TWU, and continue to do so. At the Convention we (Local 562) put forward Resolutions to make the leadership more accountable and make the organization more Transparant such as having the Directors of each division elected by delegates from that division instead of appointed by the International, Electronic ballotting that records how each delegate votes so the members can see it, recall of International official and other reforms. I believe that nearly every member would be in favor of these things. How did your representatives vote? You will never know because it was voted down. Ask them. Some got the International tap and voted as the International told them to vote.

I dont mind the criticism, everyone has the right to have an opinion but at least be a man about it and if you have something to say do so out in the open instead of hiding behind an alias. I've come under pressure many many times to not put out info, even been threatened, but I still do it because I feel its the right thing to do. If I was on the floor I would expect my representative to do what I'm doing. So you can throw your accusations and criticisms out there but if I'm a spineless buffoon because you feel I dont go far enough what are you? What are you doing to make things better other than waiting for someone to come up with a solution and see if it meets your approval?

 

[strikeforce]

I dont mind the criticism, everyone has the right to have an opinion but at least be a man about it and if you have something to say do so out in the open instead of hiding behind an alias. I've come under pressure many many times to not put out info, even been threatened, but I still do it because I feel its the right thing to do. If I was on the floor I would expect my representative to do what I'm doing. So you can throw your accusations and criticisms out there but if I'm a spineless buffoon because you feel I dont go far enough what are you? What are you doing to make things better other than waiting for someone to come up with a solution and see if it meets your approval?

Bob, I don't mind exposing myself because I know that you kind of know who I am.......I'm Carmen Ricciardi, aircraft mechanic at ORD, Member in Good Standing, and ex-TWU local 563 executive board member during the Charter years 1999-2002. Yes Bob, 2002 because I didn't make it through my first term. See Bob, I seen first hand how screwed up the TWU Intl was so I RESIGNED in 2002 because I no longer BELIEVED that the TWU was working for the people, but working for themselves, and that didn't agree with the way I was brought up as a "union man". My philosophy didn't agree with a lot of my own colleagues at ORD because they were making their own DEALS.....and like I said in one of my previous threads, I'm a straight shooter and believe the contract, constitution, and any other book we work under is borne upon each of us EQUALLY, and each of the books don't provide the people that like to scam and scheme an advantage over the people that follow the rules. To this day I preach NO DEALS, and these guys don't like it, and I will never be elected to office because of my beliefs.

Bob, I witnessed my TWU Intl union officials rubbing elbows with management while at arbitration. These officials, instead of helping our case against the company and providing my local with "star witnesses" or documents that supported our case.....these officials were in the lobby HA HA and HE HE with HR and management. I had a problem with that because later on while arbitrating our case the company always comes prepared with company "star witnesses or experts" and the TWU would NEVER provide us with their star witness or expert to counter the company. And you know what Bob, we lost lots of systemwide impacted grievances because of this failure. I kind of know now that this was all prearranged or in chahoots between management and the ATD. At that point, I no longer believed that our union was working for US. So, I resigned.

Bob, I at least had the NADS to distance myself from an organization that is self serving, and more of a dictatorship. They dictate what they make.....and they dictate what WE make. They only make it appear that WE have some control, but in reality, they tell US what to do! This is not democracy!

I tried to make a difference, but the odds were stacked against me. The only thing I can do now.....is at least hold the TWU ACCOUNTABLE for their actions.....tooo bad your still there and have to take some flack. Good Luck with negotiations.

 

[strikeforce]

Now that I exposed my identity......I challenge everyone on this forum to expose your identity! Otherwise, you're a coward!
COME ON......tell me your name, job title, and location for AA or any other company.

 

[strikeforce]

Bob, now that we're exposing everything on this forum.......let's expose the TWU and how it really works. Let's provide examples of how the Intl works side by side with management to undermine US.

Here's one that I vividly remember......after the raping in 2003 one of our Intl VP's, who is an ex-TWU 565 local president walking as an escort with AA Senior VP Bob Reding during a road show.....Reding came to ORD to explain why the executives of the company deserved their BONUS, and we deserved the shaft. Not once did the TWU VP chime in and defend US. Talk about a sellout.

By the way, and from my recollection....there was a point in the heated discussions with Reding where our VP started answering questions on Redings behalf. what a joke!

This is just an inkling of examples on why we need to replace the TWU. Now, I'm not saying that AMP will succeed, but anyone is better than the TWU at this point. Get those AMP cards moving.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I don't mind exposing myself because I know that you kind of know who I am.......I'm Carmen Ricciardi, aircraft mechanic at ORD, Member in Good Standing, and ex-TWU local 563 executive board member during the Charter years 1999-2002. Yes Bob, 2002 because I didn't make it through my first term. See Bob, I seen first hand how screwed up the TWU Intl was so I RESIGNED in 2002 because I no longer BELIEVED that the TWU was working for the people, but working for themselves, and that didn't agree with the way I was brought up as a "union man". My philosophy didn't agree with a lot of my own colleagues at ORD because they were making their own DEALS.....and like I said in one of my previous threads, I'm a straight shooter and believe the contract, constitution, and any other book we work under is borne upon each of us EQUALLY, and each of the books don't provide the people that like to scam and scheme an advantage over the people that follow the rules. To this day I preach NO DEALS, and these guys don't like it, and I will never be elected to office because of my beliefs.

Bob, I witnessed my TWU Intl union officials rubbing elbows with management while at arbitration. These officials, instead of helping our case against the company and providing my local with "star witnesses" or documents that supported our case.....these officials were in the lobby HA HA and HE HE with HR and management. I had a problem with that because later on while arbitrating our case the company always comes prepared with company "star witnesses or experts" and the TWU would NEVER provide us with their star witness or expert to counter the company. And you know what Bob, we lost lots of systemwide impacted grievances because of this failure. I kind of know now that this was all prearranged or in chahoots between management and the ATD. At that point, I no longer believed that our union was working for US. So, I resigned.

Bob,
I at least had the NADS to distance myself from an organization that is self serving, and more of a dictatorship. They dictate what they make.....and they dictate what WE make. They only make it appear that WE have some control, but in reality, they tell US what to do! This is not democracy!

I tried to make a difference, but the odds were stacked against me. The only thing I can do now.....is at least hold the TWU ACCOUNTABLE for their actions.....tooo bad your still there and have to take some flack. Good Luck with negotiations.

Yes I think we met years ago when we went to New Officer training in DFW.

Ok so you resigned because you felt like the TWU was never going to change, then what? Ken MacTiernan resigned as well but he has chosen to stay in the fight and push for change with a new union, what are you doing?

You think it takes more courage "resign and distance yourself" than to walk into a room of people that you've openly criticized? I dont see it that way, "resign and distance yourself" is another way of saying you "quit and ran away". I never resigned, I was thrown out for five years and sent back back by my coworkers.

You say that you havent changed, yet you were elected once werent you? If they elected someone who would not make deals once why wouldnt they do it again?

You choose to do the right thing at work. good for you. But not everybody goes the way you do, thats reality, deal with it. People have been making deals here long before either of us ever showed up.

The odds were stacked against you, so that means give up? I share many of those same concerns about the undemocratic structure, the lack of accountability and the overly friendly relationship between our ATD and the company. Other Airline locals outside of AA refer to it as the AAtd. It concerns me that our International officials fly on higher passes than station managers, that the frquency of marriages between Union and Company are so high(like your boy Z from ORD, then you wonder why you cant win a case?), that so many from the union jump straight into management when they are voted out. But I'm trying and do something about it, not just complain. I could go on and on but right now my focus is on getting us a better deal, one that we can live with that will make our lives the way it should be.

 

[767 mechanic]

Bob, now that we're exposing everything on this forum.......let's expose the TWU and how it really works. Let's provide examples of how the Intl works side by side with management to undermine US.

Here's one that I vividly remember......after the raping in 2003 one of our Intl VP's, who is an ex-TWU 565 local president walking as an escort with AA Senior VP Bob Reding during a road show.....Reding came to ORD to explain why the executives of the company deserved their BONUS, and we deserved the shaft. Not once did the TWU VP chime in and defend US. Talk about a sellout.

By the way, and from my recollection....there was a point in the heated discussions with Reding where our VP started answering questions on Redings behalf. what a joke!

This is just an inkling of examples on why we need to replace the TWU. Now, I'm not saying that AMP will succeed, but anyone is better than the TWU at this point. Get those AMP cards moving.

That would be Don Videtich. The new driver of a GMC Traverse that was provided by the atd on the union members dime.

 

[TWU informer]

GIVE THE GOVERNOR A HARUMPH!!!!