Mechanic & Related Mediation

[TWU informer]

After reading through the Management Proposal I am interested to know what actually transpired in Tulsa that makes Kane think that release is not required and that meeting again will change anything?

The two sides appear to be extremely far apart and the management proposal is not even close to sufficient movement to demonstrate real interest in getting an agreement.

I am suprised and my opinion of this process has now changed considerably. I guess you could say I have once again "waffled" so to speak. I actually thought the company might be ready to get something done and avoid the eventual battle with it's AMT's.

I was wrong!

By bringing forward that weak and unwarranted counter proposal, they are obviously ignorant enough to provoke a battle instead of seeking avoidance.


That being said.

I would like to suggest to everyone that as your fellow workers view or becoming informed about this weeks activities, or lack thereof, we will start to witness major frustrations amongst the work group across the system, and it would be in your best interest to stop posting any threats or suggestions regarding "showing" any of these frustrations. It is my belief that the frustration will now begin to show itself without provocation from the internet forums and it would be in your best interest NOT to be falsely accused of or incorrectly blamed for causing any of the company provoked actions. Allow the ignorant fools of the company negotiating team to take the blame instead, which is where it belongs, all on their shoulders. ALL discussions regarding ANY actions that one might deem beneficial should NEVER be posted on an internet fourm or bulletin board, and should remain within your work groups and private. It is my opinion that this is now about to get nasty each of you should protect yourselves by NOT posting such information here or on any other internet forum for that matter.

In other words don't volunteer to become collateral damage is what is likely to start happening on it's own accord. Good Luck!

PS Union Leadership would be best served and would show some leadership skills if they would inform the membership via system wide communications of the dangers of becoming victims in any company provoked battle that might begin.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Wow! The company offers ONE cent for working afternoon shift and TWO cents for working night shift?

Here's my TWO cents... release us to a 30 day cooling off period!

I use to think that Northwest Airlines had the worse management/labor relations in the industry followed by United. Now that both airlines have been absorbed that leaves AA as number 1 in something!

 

[enough already]

It's awful quiet after that POS was dumped on us..... h34r:

 

[strikeforce]

After reading through the Management Proposal I am interested to know what actually transpired in Tulsa that makes Kane think that release is not required and that meeting again will change anything?

The two sides appear to be extremely far apart and the management proposal is not even close to sufficient movement to demonstrate real interest in getting an agreement.

I am suprised and my opinion of this process has now changed considerably. I guess you could say I have once again "waffled" so to speak. I actually thought the company might be ready to get something done and avoid the eventual battle with it's AMT's.

I was wrong!

By bringing forward that weak and unwarranted counter proposal, they are obviously ignorant enough to provoke a battle instead of seeking avoidance.


That being said.

I would like to suggest to everyone that as your fellow workers view or becoming informed about this weeks activities, or lack thereof, we will start to witness major frustrations amongst the work group across the system, and it would be in your best interest to stop posting any threats or suggestions regarding "showing" any of these frustrations. It is my belief that the frustration will now begin to show itself without provocation from the internet forums and it would be in your best interest NOT to be falsely accused of or incorrectly blamed for causing any of the company provoked actions. Allow the ignorant fools of the company negotiating team to take the blame instead, which is where it belongs, all on their shoulders. ALL discussions regarding ANY actions that one might deem beneficial should NEVER be posted on an internet fourm or bulletin board, and should remain within your work groups and private. It is my opinion that this is now about to get nasty each of you should protect yourselves by NOT posting such information here or on any other internet forum for that matter.

In other words don't volunteer to become collateral damage is what is likely to start happening on it's own accord. Good Luck!

PS Union Leadership would be best served and would show some leadership skills if they would inform the membership via system wide communications of the dangers of becoming victims in any company provoked battle that might begin.

JUST DO YOUR JOB!! VERBATIM!!!!!!!!![/

 

[767 mechanic]

After reading through the Management Proposal I am interested to know what actually transpired in Tulsa that makes Kane think that release is not required and that meeting again will change anything?

The two sides appear to be extremely far apart and the management proposal is not even close to sufficient movement to demonstrate real interest in getting an agreement.

I am suprised and my opinion of this process has now changed considerably. I guess you could say I have once again "waffled" so to speak. I actually thought the company might be ready to get something done and avoid the eventual battle with it's AMT's.

I was wrong!

By bringing forward that weak and unwarranted counter proposal, they are obviously ignorant enough to provoke a battle instead of seeking avoidance.


That being said.

I would like to suggest to everyone that as your fellow workers view or becoming informed about this weeks activities, or lack thereof, we will start to witness major frustrations amongst the work group across the system, and it would be in your best interest to stop posting any threats or suggestions regarding "showing" any of these frustrations. It is my belief that the frustration will now begin to show itself without provocation from the internet forums and it would be in your best interest NOT to be falsely accused of or incorrectly blamed for causing any of the company provoked actions. Allow the ignorant fools of the company negotiating team to take the blame instead, which is where it belongs, all on their shoulders. ALL discussions regarding ANY actions that one might deem beneficial should NEVER be posted on an internet fourm or bulletin board, and should remain within your work groups and private. It is my opinion that this is now about to get nasty each of you should protect yourselves by NOT posting such information here or on any other internet forum for that matter.

In other words don't volunteer to become collateral damage is what is likely to start happening on it's own accord. Good Luck!

PS Union Leadership would be best served and would show some leadership skills if they would inform the membership via system wide communications of the dangers of becoming victims in any company provoked battle that might begin.

Somebody once told me to learn to spell. I might suggest the same to you. Don't forget to take your prozac after you read this. Wa Wa Wa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Here's what American spokeswoman Missy Cousino said:

"During the week, American responded to the TWU's March 2011 proposal on all open articles. The company's proposal was not regressive. Relative to the failed TA, it included additional pay raises and an increase in the number of holidays. When taking those improvements into consideration, along with some of the alternatives proposed in other work rules, it remains economically in line with the May 2010 tentative agreement, which is the typical path taken after a TA is reached, but not ratified.
"American has never wavered from its commitment to reach a fair deal with the M&R group, but any agreement needs to be sustainable and in the best interests of all of our employees and stakeholders.

American has repeatedly stated to the TWU, including in the presentation the company provided to the TWU April 28, 2011, American's objectives have remained the same throughout negotiations. The company continues to bargain in good faith and to work toward finding creative solutions that allow the two parties to reach mutually acceptable agreements.

"At the end of the session, Mediator Kane made it clear to the parties that he would not be recommending a release at this time and scheduled the next mediation session for the week of June 13 with the location to be determined."

Chuck Schalk, vice president of TWU's New York local, called the airline's counter offer "disrespectful and insulting to our members who have greatly sacrificed over the last eight years and beyond of concessions and does not address the core issues."

He said the NMB should "release us and then we can legally apply our own pressure towards a contract that our members and their families can live with."

========================================================

"it remains economically in line with the May 2010 tentative agreement, which is the typical path taken after a TA is reached, but not ratified.
"American has never wavered from its commitment to reach a fair deal with the M&R group, but any agreement needs to be sustainable and in the best interests of all of our employees and stakeholders."

AArpey and company must be the most dense people on the planet or they simply are the greediest people made in the mold of Frank Lorenzo. What do these people NOT understand? If they want to ruin this airline why drag this charade along any further? Labor relations at this company will never be the same. I will NEVER trust this management team again. Maintenance's motto is "We fly at dawn" according to our VP of Maintenance but in reality the company motto is "We don't care, respect or acknowledge labor's contibutions to a once great airline. Instead we prefer to rob, lie, steal and cheat labor at every turn and give ourselves bonuses while labor carries the burden of "Shared Sacrifice" otherwise known as THE GREAT LIE."

30 day cooling off period can NOT come fast enough. Kane feels that we haven't reached a cooling off period yet? Boy, is he wrong!

By the way, were there any local presidents that wanted to bring this POS back? Were there any local presidents that were STUPID enough to even think this POS deserved to come back?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Very disrespectfull and disappointing. I dare say "OFFENSIVE". Remember "verbatim" NO deviation folks.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Very disrespectfull and disappointing. I dare say "OFFENSIVE". Remember "verbatim" NO deviation folks.

I surprised myself today - I thought I'd feel anger whenever the obvious was put into writing but all I really feel is disgust for the TWU, the company, and the system.

 

[MCI transplant]

Somebody once told me to learn to spell. I might suggest the same to you. Don't forget to take your prozac after you read this. Wa Wa Wa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<_< What's the matter 767? Didn't you get the message? I think we all undersand what he's saying!!!

 

[odie01]

Here's what American spokeswoman Missy Cousino said:

"During the week, American responded to the TWU's March 2011 proposal on all open articles. The company's proposal was not regressive. Relative to the failed TA, it included additional pay raises and an increase in the number of holidays. When taking those improvements into consideration, along with some of the alternatives proposed in other work rules, it remains economically in line with the May 2010 tentative agreement, which is the typical path taken after a TA is reached, but not ratified.
"American has never wavered from its commitment to reach a fair deal with the M&R group, but any agreement needs to be sustainable and in the best interests of all of our employees and stakeholders.

American has repeatedly stated to the TWU, including in the presentation the company provided to the TWU April 28, 2011, American's objectives have remained the same throughout negotiations. The company continues to bargain in good faith and to work toward finding creative solutions that allow the two parties to reach mutually acceptable agreements.

"At the end of the session, Mediator Kane made it clear to the parties that he would not be recommending a release at this time and scheduled the next mediation session for the week of June 13 with the location to be determined."

Chuck Schalk, vice president of TWU's New York local, called the airline's counter offer "disrespectful and insulting to our members who have greatly sacrificed over the last eight years and beyond of concessions and does not address the core issues."

He said the NMB should "release us and then we can legally apply our own pressure towards a contract that our members and their families can live with."

========================================================

"it remains economically in line with the May 2010 tentative agreement, which is the typical path taken after a TA is reached, but not ratified.
"American has never wavered from its commitment to reach a fair deal with the M&R group, but any agreement needs to be sustainable and in the best interests of all of our employees and stakeholders."

AArpey and company must be the most dense people on the planet or they simply are the greediest people made in the mold of Frank Lorenzo. What do these people NOT understand? If they want to ruin this airline why drag this charade along any further? Labor relations at this company will never be the same. I will NEVER trust this management team again. Maintenance's motto is "We fly at dawn" according to our VP of Maintenance but in reality the company motto is "We don't care, respect or acknowledge labor's contibutions to a once great airline. Instead we prefer to rob, lie, steal and cheat labor at every turn and give ourselves bonuses while labor carries the burden of "Shared Sacrifice" otherwise known as THE GREAT LIE."

30 day cooling off period can NOT come fast enough. Kane feels that we haven't reached a cooling off period yet? Boy, is he wrong!

By the way, were there any local presidents that wanted to bring this POS back? Were there any local presidents that were STUPID enough to even think this POS deserved to come back?

Well said Ken,
"Look not what your union could due for you, but how you can replace the twu"
work by the book, and sign a card!

 

[Bob Owens]

After reading through the Management Proposal I am interested to know what actually transpired in Tulsa that makes Kane think that release is not required and that meeting again will change anything?

The reasoning was that the company added two Holidays. I'm not saying I agree but that was the reasoning. I think it has more to do with the pending UAL vote. The NMB does not want to release us because if they do it could trigger a more militant response at UAL and more work for the NMB. Right now the IBT is doing a hard sell over at UAL saying they should accept their TA so they dont end up like us. A release would counter their propaganda and could trigger another "Summer of Hell" like in 2000.

The two sides appear to be extremely far apart and the management proposal is not even close to sufficient movement to demonstrate real interest in getting an agreement.

I am suprised and my opinion of this process has now changed considerably. I guess you could say I have once again "waffled" so to speak. I actually thought the company might be ready to get something done and avoid the eventual battle with it's AMT's.

I was wrong!

Same here.

At the April session the company had acknowledged that the market had moved yet they came back with this clearly regressive offer. I wasnt expecting them to come back and say "here's everything you asked for" but I didnt think they would be as regressive as they were.

I looked over the cost outs on the flight home (crammed into 18E on yet another jammed packed plane, not one empty seat on either flight today) and I figured its basically around half of what they offered last year.

I figure the offer comes out to $37 million a year not counting the Scope changes which could be worth many times that.

We asked for $190 million a year with our table position, that would put us at number 4 in the industry.

We gave them $320 million a year in the 2003 deal. They are offering us roughly 10% of what they took away eight years later. Absurd.

When you factor in those other concessions this offer is even more concessionary than 2003, we lose prefunding, the pension for new hires would be gone and its a seven year deal. Is so fustrating, its like the Federal Government with the NMB is holding you down while the company attacks and taunts you so you cant do a damned thing about it. Its certainly not a fair system.

When we brought up the fact that their offer would put us at the bottom of the industry they claimed it was still a rich offer because they employed more workers. Their logic seems to be that if they employ twice as many workers they should be allowed to pay them half as much.

By bringing forward that weak and unwarranted counter proposal, they are obviously ignorant enough to provoke a battle instead of seeking avoidance.


That being said.

I would like to suggest to everyone that as your fellow workers view or becoming informed about this weeks activities, or lack thereof, we will start to witness major frustrations amongst the work group across the system, and it would be in your best interest to stop posting any threats or suggestions regarding "showing" any of these frustrations. It is my belief that the frustration will now begin to show itself without provocation from the internet forums and it would be in your best interest NOT to be falsely accused of or incorrectly blamed for causing any of the company provoked actions. Allow the ignorant fools of the company negotiating team to take the blame instead, which is where it belongs, all on their shoulders. ALL discussions regarding ANY actions that one might deem beneficial should NEVER be posted on an internet fourm or bulletin board, and should remain within your work groups and private. It is my opinion that this is now about to get nasty each of you should protect yourselves by NOT posting such information here or on any other internet forum for that matter.

In other words don't volunteer to become collateral damage is what is likely to start happening on it's own accord. Good Luck!

PS Union Leadership would be best served and would show some leadership skills if they would inform the membership via system wide communications of the dangers of becoming victims in any company provoked battle that might begin.

I agree, guys, dont vent your fustrations here, step away from the keyboard and read it twice and think about this would look in arbitration before you hit "send". Free Speech does not apply to the workplace.

I'm not certain as to the companys motives, I know if they had offered something like this back in 2000 the place would have shut down by now, but back then the workforce as a whole was a lot younger, we had a lot more fight in us. Maybe they figure we are a bunch of weak willed old men that they can kick and spit on as they like? I dont know, maybe they are just buying time to see what happens at UAL? To me it seems as if the Operational people want to get a deal done but are afraid of HR and Finance. I think the operational people know they are the ones sitting on the powder keg and the finance and HR are sitting there throwing sparks at it. But who knows, who cares? Its clear that they did not come in this week with a serious offer.

What's the thought process of cutting a rejected offer in half? Surely they didnt think the members rejected the offer because they thought it was too much and they felt management should keep it.

The company once again repeated that they would not enhance their offer, saying that the two additional holidays would have to be paid for from somewhere else in the contract desite the fact that its still not even 2.5X.

When we rejected the TA the company was quoted as saying that they would just "move the furniture around", earler today before I left Tulsa I sent an E-mail to our Local officers saying "Rearrange the furniture? They took the sofa and dining room set and left a doily."

The company also padded the cost out by doing things like adding a figure for profit sharing (which is why I think they dont want the cost out released), adding the increased MRT and leaving out the fact that the change in the window for MRT would allow them to eliminate all MRT and still have 24 hour coverage. So in realty lets say they said that the change in MRT was worth up to $5 million, then the change in the window was a concession worth up to $7.5 million.

Had enough for today, time to hit the sack.

Hopefully the mediator will reconsider in June.

 

[TWU informer]

Here's what American spokeswoman Missy Cousino said:

"During the week, American responded to the TWU's March 2011 proposal on all open articles. The company's proposal was not regressive. Relative to the failed TA, it included additional pay raises and an increase in the number of holidays. When taking those improvements into consideration, along with some of the alternatives proposed in other work rules, it remains economically in line with the May 2010 tentative agreement, which is the typical path taken after a TA is reached, but not ratified.
"American has never wavered from its commitment to reach a fair deal with the M&R group, but any agreement needs to be sustainable and in the best interests of all of our employees and stakeholders.

American has repeatedly stated to the TWU, including in the presentation the company provided to the TWU April 28, 2011, American's objectives have remained the same throughout negotiations. The company continues to bargain in good faith and to work toward finding creative solutions that allow the two parties to reach mutually acceptable agreements.

"At the end of the session, Mediator Kane made it clear to the parties that he would not be recommending a release at this time and scheduled the next mediation session for the week of June 13 with the location to be determined."

Chuck Schalk, vice president of TWU's New York local, called the airline's counter offer "disrespectful and insulting to our members who have greatly sacrificed over the last eight years and beyond of concessions and does not address the core issues."

He said the NMB should "release us and then we can legally apply our own pressure towards a contract that our members and their families can live with."

========================================================

"it remains economically in line with the May 2010 tentative agreement, which is the typical path taken after a TA is reached, but not ratified.
"American has never wavered from its commitment to reach a fair deal with the M&R group, but any agreement needs to be sustainable and in the best interests of all of our employees and stakeholders."

AArpey and company must be the most dense people on the planet or they simply are the greediest people made in the mold of Frank Lorenzo. What do these people NOT understand? If they want to ruin this airline why drag this charade along any further? Labor relations at this company will never be the same. I will NEVER trust this management team again. Maintenance's motto is "We fly at dawn" according to our VP of Maintenance but in reality the company motto is "We don't care, respect or acknowledge labor's contibutions to a once great airline. Instead we prefer to rob, lie, steal and cheat labor at every turn and give ourselves bonuses while labor carries the burden of "Shared Sacrifice" otherwise known as THE GREAT LIE."

30 day cooling off period can NOT come fast enough. Kane feels that we haven't reached a cooling off period yet? Boy, is he wrong!

By the way, were there any local presidents that wanted to bring this POS back? Were there any local presidents that were STUPID enough to even think this POS deserved to come back?

This internet published response from Missy Cousino should lead everyone to the conclusion that AA is reading these and other message boards and responding in exchange to these boards instead of directly to the negotiating team. It has now been exposed that AA is trying to negotiate via twitter type of activity versus direct negotiations with our TWU established negotiation team. It is not beyond the AA propaganda machine to try an convince you that your TWU negotiators do not have your best interest within their hearts. I now see who is on my side and who is against me...

...Don't each of you too?

This activity should make even the voice of reason stand on edge, and wake up with a scowl right into their face and say to themselves "what the ####"is happening here.

AA is not responding in a decent and ethical manner, instead they are responding in a greedy and a manner of foolish management leadership that will lead to not only a demise of their own personal jobs but the Airline as a a whole. Do you dipshits in management have enough money banked to weather a complete destruction of your airline? Because you have now crossed the line of reason and are facing an unrelenting and destructive force that will take you to your knees. You ignorant bastards have no idea how to manage a successful airline, you are treading on water that has zero floatation regardless of your will to survive.

Management ignorant fucks cannot manage, cannot properly negotiate, cannot even calculate financing properly. You are now personally screwed, just as I personally may be too, but so what you ignorant bastards deserve what is coming.. Regardless of outcome, #### YOU! I will hunt your asses down one by one and explain to you each you the fundamentals of ethical behavior and the all but forgotten Golden Rule.

I am probabaly the last worker with a voice of reason you had left on these forums, even at the expense of my fellow workers. I now say #### YOU! Game on!

You ignorant assholes can be assured that when I am pissed and have had enough that most of your work force is beyond 10 times more angry. You stupid fucks deserve what you are about to get!!!

Voice of Reason now sees the ignorance and AArogance for what it is worth@

 

[Hopeful]

This internet published response from Missy Cousino should lead everyone to the conclusion that AA is reading these and other message boards and responding in exchange to these boards instead of directly to the negotiating team. It has now been exposed that AA is trying to negotiate via twitter type of activity versus direct negotiations with our TWU established negotiation team. It is not beyond the AA propaganda machine to try an convince you that your TWU negotiators do not have your best within their hearts. This activity should make even the voice of reason stand on edge, and wake up with a scowl right into their face and say to themselves "what the ####"is happening here.

AA is not responding in a decent and ethical manner, instead they are responding in a greedy and a manner of foolish management leadership that will lead to not only a demise of their own personal jobs but the Airline as a a whole. Do you dipshits in management have enough money banked to weather a complete destruction of your airline? Because you have now crossed the line of reason and are facing an unrelenting and destructive force that will take you to your knees. You ignorant bastards have no idea how to manage a successful airline, you are treading on water that has zero floatation regardless of your will to survive.

Management ignorant fucks cannot manage, cannot properly negotiate, cannot even calculate financing properly. You are now personally screwed, just as I personally may be too, but so what you ignorant bastards deserve what is coming.. Regardless of outcome, #### YOU! I will hunt your asses down one by one and explain to you each you the fundamentals of ethical behavior and the all but forgotten Golden Rule.

I am probabaly the last worker with a voice of reason you had left on these forums, even at the expense of my fellow workers. I now say #### YOU! Game on!

You ignorant assholes can be assured that when I am pissed and have had enough that most of your work force is beyond 10 times more angry. You stupid fucks deserve what you are about to get!!!

Voice of Reason now sees the ignorance and AArogance for what it is worth@

This is the FAIR AA that gets defended on this forum. AA doesn't know the meaning of bargaining in good faith. they lowballed their last offer..

HAS EVERYONE HAD ENOUGH YET????????????????????????????

 

[strikeforce]

You ignorant assholes can be assured that when I am pissed and have had enough that most of your work force is beyond 10 times more angry. You stupid fucks deserve what you are about to get!!!

Voice of Reason now sees the ignorance and AArogance for what it is worth@

We all need to calm down. This response is playing into AA's mind games. No need to get into confrontations at work and risk losing your job. That would be a travesty, and not worth it, especially after 8 years of giving the company your blood.

Voice of reason will play out when all 10,000 AMT's decide to do their jobs with integrity and professionalism, and as a team. This can only be done by strict adherence to MM, GPM & Workcards to the letter. After it's all said and done.....WE will have our day when AA management will finally realize how wrong they were to kick us in the teeth. We already know management can't manage their way out of a paper bag....throw in the parts calamity and mechanics doing their jobs, and the company WILL be brought to it's knees. Management know's it, and we know it. Management just doesn't think WE have the WILL to do it. It should've been a no brainer in 2003, but we gave this company what they wanted for 8 years. Now, we're all seing how arrogant, disrespectful, and greedy management can be. Welcome to the airline industry!

In 2003, AA knew exactly how this train wreck would play out 5, 8, 10 years down the road. My worthless union leadership has continually thrown ME down the river because I don't have leaders smart enough to overcome the tactics, strategies, and con games management employs during negotiations. Most of US have been around long enough to know WE ARE NOT GETTING OUR MONEY BACK FROM MANAGEMENT, but I expect our leaders to grow some NADS and at the very least go through the motions of showing some fight. Not my leadership. They are cowards! Today's proposal by AA was an obvious slap in the face to all AMT's......at the very least I expected my leaders to get up, throw some chairs at management, and simply walk out of the room, as a TEAAM, and not come back. This is what I would have done. But, not my team. Did they really think the mediator was going to release us right then and there? Is Bob Owens and his team that stupid? Why didn't you walk out Bob? Why waste another week of your time, and mine? You and your team better grow some BIG NADS and show ME you're smart enough to be worthy of being MY leaders, or STOP WASTING MY TIME!!!!!!!!! THE TWU KEEPS GIVING ME MORE REASONS TO THROW THEM OUT!!!!!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

Here's the company's sugar coated side!

http://www.aanegotiations.com/documents/APR2011TWUPresentationvFinal-MsgvFinal_001.pdf


Notice how they eliminated even the puny retro from the rejected TA.