Mcie To Stay Open But Downsize!

[Bob Owens]

This makes the most sense, with the announcement of job retention in STL and the movement of work. AA would not have signed a 25 year lease without some gurantees, Maybe with the increase in production we will be working on NW and Alaska Airplanes.

We are now starting to work on Eagle parts, so the cost structure is showing signs of improving.

Great Job all you Brothers and Sisters who have worked tirelessly to keep work and Jobs at AA!!!!!!

Its a sad day when Union "leaders?" brag about how they will work for less than anyone else.

There used to be a saying, one that the TWU never heard of -"Work smarter not harder."

TWU, the best thing that ever happened to an airline, the worst thing to happen to the labor movement.

If an airline has a TWU represented workforce then they probably have the lowest paid in the industry, just compare SWA and AA.

TWU represented Flight attendants at SWA-Lowest paid with the worst work rules in the industry where flight attendants have to clean the planes without getting paid even though SWA is the most profitable in the industry.

AA flight attendants, represented by an independant Industry specific union make more and have better work rules.

TWU represented mechanics at AA- lowest paid with the worst work rules in the industry, no doubletime, half pay sick days, half pay on holidays if the company requires you to work, 2 cent shift differentials, training after shift on straight time, prefunding, no company paid LTD, 10 day max on iod, 5 sick days. In the past, working for one of the "majors" meant that you were probably the best paid. AA is the largest carrier in the world yet its top paid mechanics make around $17,000 less a year than SWA mechanics.

SWA mechanics, represented by an independant-Industry specific union- earn more and have better benifits and work rules.

So if you want to work "tirelessly" for less you can either vote for RTW or choose to be represented by the TWU.

 

[j7915]

Bob, maybe if you had spend less time worrying about OSMs in Tulsa, and more time to insure that the total maintenance cost made sense then you would be making as a line mech what SWA is making.

Have you ever priced the labor cost for all the overhaul jobs? RV4 and Buck may not want to admit it, but I don't think that when they get their car tires rotated or mounted, they go to MR Goodwrench and offer to pay top mechanics scale.

Bob do you really think that the people re-covering interior partitions, or cutting sidewall panels for the cx areas have to be hired at your top scale? Kind of minimizes your worth.

 

[Buck]

It would appear that you believe that your TWU Union brothers and sisters have less value than yourself? Would you bid into an OSM shop and be okay with the paycut? If OSM's are the answer to the airlines economic woes, then we need to seperate them from the other mechanics. If I use your attitude, then the machinists and welders are over paid as are the OSM's. Why do you hate your profession?

 

[will fix for food]

It would appear that you believe that your TWU Union brothers and sisters have less value than yourself? Would you bid into an OSM shop and be okay with the paycut? If OSM's are the answer to the airlines economic woes, then we need to seperate them from the other mechanics. If I use your attitude, then the machinists and welders are over paid as are the OSM's. Why do you hate your profession?

Since we don't have OSM's at Eagle maybe somebody could answer some questions for me.

What kind of task's do they accomplish?

Do OSM's need an A&P?

Do they get the same pay and benefits as an A/A mechanic?

 

[Buck]

They do sidewall panels, Lavs Toilets, Coffee Pots, Seats etc.. OSM's are not required to have an A&P. They are on the same payscale as a A&P mechanic only they receive no license pay. During the reduction in force, A&P's were bumped to OSM shops.

 

[will fix for food]

During the reduction in force, A&P's were bumped to OSM shops.

Did you have a choice of taking the lay-off or taking the OSM spot or were you forced to the OSM spot?

 

[Bob Owens]

J7915;
And how exactly do you figure we could have made line pay higher?

Since when does AA hire people in at top pay?

The fact is that anyone who works on any part on an airplane should be trained to know how critical everything that we do is. Simple things often cause terrible disasters. While recovering walls and cutting Cargo panels may seem unimportant to you I feel that every job that we do is important. Jobs such as these should be coordinated with other functions that do require more skills. The most simple jobs should go to A&P mechanics who are right out of school, after they finish an assigned allotment of panels or whatever they should be sent out to assist other mechanics. This way they can learn more and more different skills as time goes by. Then he can be utilized wherever the demand is. This would increase productivity, lessen turnover and maintain quality.

The TWU has spent the last twenty years minimizing the value of A&P mechanics. By giving away A&P work they decrease the demand for A&P mechanics. Their SRP/OSM programs are merely a pilot program for FAR 66. By giving OSMs company issued, non-portable FAA certificates it will be sold as an "improvement". This permanent underclass of mechanics will outnumber A&P mechanics yet because of the RLA will always be a part of our contract group. This group will not be able to go to another carrier with their certificates thus making their dependance on the company even greater than A&P mechanics.

I have to wonder if you are really pro-union at all. Perhaps your loyalty to the TWU and Jim Littles spinning has clouded your judgement as a union man. You seem to be more concerned with the company than the living standards of union workers. Next thing you will be doing is trashing the baggage handlers. "Why are we paying them $20/hr while others are paying minimum wage?"- Because they too deserve a living wage. Thats why we are in unions, so that as a group we can get better wages, not to work for less than everyone else.

The pressure on other airlines to outsource comes primarily from our contract with AA. First we had B-scale, that caused all soprts of problems for the rest of the industry, especially those that had real unions that would never say "Screw the newborn". Most other unions throughout the industry would not dare to try and sell all these B-scale scams to their members. The TWU has been reselling B-scale over and over again, giving AA a cost advantage over other carriers. Their latest coup, "outsouce prices" with all the benifits and efficiencies of "in house" will only continue the downward pressure on wages for all airline workers. Non-union Delta Airlines workers are now going to be taking pay cuts because of TWU negotiated concessions. This is disgraceful!

If our union is only here to tell us why we should work for less then do we really need them? A union is supposed to fight, over thelast twenty years we have led the industry in concessions, we have never fought back.

Have you been watching the news lately? There are strikes going on all over the place by people who are not willing to make concessions. We gave the company EVERYTHING that they asked for. Is that what you feel unions should do? Give the company EVERYTHING they ask for? And then justify it by saying "We saved jobs"?

If the unions purpose is to just save jobs then under what circumstances could they ever justify a strike? Elimination of Company paid Presidents? Elimination of checkoff?

 

[Bob Owens]

Since we don't have OSM's at Eagle maybe somebody could answer some questions for me.

What kind of task's do they accomplish?

Do OSM's need an A&P?

Do they get the same pay and benefits as an A/A mechanic?

You may not have them yet, but with Art Luby and the TWU writing your contract you will probably have them soon. I would watch your language to see how they try to sneak in provisions to fully utilize Part 66. Company certificated mechanics who will be able to sign the logbook just like an A&P.

 

[MCI transplant]

What has all this got to do with keeping MCI open???? Are we going into a TWU/AMFA thing again??? <_<

 

[TOOLS]

The OSM issue while not directly relevant to the topic can be seen as a critical issue as to the current state at MCIE.

MCIE is the only one of the three overhaul bases that does not have OSM's and will most likely not have (OSM's) for at least another 10 years if ever. The reason for this is because of 400+ mechanics that are on layoff from MCIE. The company (AA) had wanted to fill OSM shop positions with these Mechanics. The union (TWU) fought to establish a mini agreement that would not allow OSM's at MCIE untill all furlowed mechanics are recalled back to mechanic possitions.

Thus currently all shops at MCIE are staffed with A&P or non licence holding shop or hanger mechanics. The former back shop manning numbers are approximently one third of what they were at time of integration.

So why is this OSM debate so critical to the mechanic retention levels at MCIE?
Because without OSM's MCIE will never be able to compeat with the other overhaul facilitys on a dollar cost per manhour basis. AA's decimation of the backshop manning at Kansas City is a direct result of this issue.

 

[MCI transplant]

Tools----- As a result of prudant leadership from our Local, we now have skilled shop personel making a decent wage! Is this a bad thing? Or should it be an example for for those with less apptitude!!!!! :down:

 

[TOOLS]

Tools----- As a result of prudant leadership from our Local, we now have skilled shop personel making a decent wage! Is this a bad thing? Or should it be an example for for those with less apptitude!!!!! :down:

[/QUOTE]

The point that I'm attempting to make is this. One of the many reasons for the downsize of the MCIE facility is due to the bottom line cost of doing business.
Included in this cost (infact a major part) is labor costs. While its true that MCIE operates very efficently and often ahead of schedule in the completion of current work this will do little to insure future growth in lieu of manhour cost compared to TULE and AFW.

These shop losses at MCIE have been the result of absorption of work by TULE (by the way they are adding jobs OSM's and A&P's) and AFW. This absorption is largely due to bottom line manhour costs due to the lack of the OSM's at MCIE.

Yes at the time the Local Union did the right thing in insuring that all mechanics retained their mechanic status instead of being down graded to OSM. But in hinesight this may have backfired because of those 400+ mechanics this agreement ( those on layoff) now protects I think only a very small fraction (if any)
will ever darken the door into MCIE again. If the union where to change their tune and lets say allow those on layoff to come back as OSM's while retaing their recall rights to mechanic this would be better for all involved.

Lets face it the company is not going spend more money for better work. They will spend LESS! money for average work.

 

[MCI transplant]

Tools---- Your point may be valid! But as long as you play their game of pitting one group against another, you'll lose!!! Have you ever heard the saying," You get what you pay for"??? Well that's exactly the case here! You said it yourself! As far as Aircraft maintenance, we know how to get the job done! No brag! The truth! If A.A. shuts us down! It's their lose! It's that simple!

 

[MCI transplant]

The point that I'm attempting to make is this. One of the many reasons for the downsize of the MCIE facility is due to the bottom line cost of doing business.
Included in this cost (infact a major part) is labor costs. While its true that MCIE operates very efficently and often ahead of schedule in the completion of current work this will do little to insure future growth in lieu of manhour cost compared to TULE and AFW.

These shop losses at MCIE have been the result of absorption of work by TULE (by the way they are adding jobs OSM's and A&P's) and AFW. This absorption is largely due to bottom line manhour costs due to the lack of the OSM's at MCIE.

Yes at the time the Local Union did the right thing in insuring that all mechanics retained their mechanic status instead of being down graded to OSM. But in hinesight this may have backfired because of those 400+ mechanics this agreement ( those on layoff) now protects I think only a very small fraction (if any)
will ever darken the door into MCIE again. If the union where to change their tune and lets say allow those on layoff to come back as OSM's while retaing their recall rights to mechanic this would be better for all involved.

Lets face it the company is not going spend more money for better work. They will spend LESS! money for average work.[/QUOTE]
<_< Tools! How do you like working for an "average" Airline?????

 

[TOOLS]

I'm not working I'm on FURLOW. As one of those 400+ mechanics from MCIE. :blink: