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Oh Where Oh Where Is Amfa Today?
- Thread starter Checking it Out
- Start date
Exactly how does taking one week of vacation away from every employee save jobs?
By giving the company back one week of vacation it actually cost over 300 mechanics their jobs.
The fact is the TWU is The Worst Union for airline workers, whether its the largest airline -AA or the most profitable airline- SWA, the TWU represented employee is the lowest paid with the worst benefits and language.
The TWUs motives are obvious. They were not trying to "save the company" or "Save jobs". Their motive was to give AA such a competative advantage over other carriers that it would put those carriers out of business. Then AA could continue to expand and the TWU would get more members to make up for the reduced per capita.
The whole strategy was to maintain the capacity so that when the industry starts to recover AA not only has the capacity in place but has lower costs. The vacation giveback allowed the company to layoff an additional 300 mechanics without the loss of productivity. Layoffs without cost, what kind of a union would agree to make it easier to lay off? The vacation giveback gives the company and extra 1.4 million hours of labor for free.(36000 members X 40hrs). Thats nearly $30 million in salaries alone on top of all of the other concessions!
Even the SEIU recognizes that catch all unions like the TWU simply do not work.
They will not change from within, beleive me I know.
I still have not heard one valid reason why aircraft mechanics should not strive to be in one union. Only one union offers mechanics that option and its not the TWU, IAM or IBT. The fact is there is no valid reason why baggage handlers should be split up between three unions that are not industry specific either. They too should strive for unity and Solidarity with all the other baggage handlers. If all the baggage handlers were in one union they could effectively shut down the industry like any other workgroup.
The problem with the current structure is that these three unions could care less about the airlines. As far as they are concerned we are overpaid. John Kerrigan of the TWU said something to the effect of 'How much do these guys expect to make?' Years ago I was told the story of a Teamster rep who nearly fell off his chair when he heard that mechanics were going for $10/hr, right in front of the company he went on about how as a truck driver he used to make $2/hr and thought that was a good wage.
One of the things that we have to wonder about these "catch all unions", that, for the most part are led by people who never worked in this industry, is are they bartering labor peace in the airlines for pet projects in other industries such as the recent AMTRACK bailout? Are our dues and COPE dollars being used for that while our wages and benefits are gutted?
Whether or not we are being used by these unions for their own interests one thing is without dispute; The labor movement, as a whole, in the airline industry, has not been successful at protecting or maintaining the living standards of airline workers. That includes other workgroups, not just mechanics. Maybe overall industry employment is up but we are all making much less. Whatever they are doing, it has not been working for over 20 years. The worst hit groups are those who are not in industry specific union- ground workers, primarily members of the IAM and TWU.
According to most economic theories increased productivity and an expanding industry usually provide workers in that industry the opportunity for elevated living standards. Despite the facts that this industry has expanded and seen increased productivity airline workers across the board have seen declining living standards. Our decline has been worse than that experienced by the overall economy.
However, some have benefited, obviously the airlines have benefitted, so have the customers but the unions have benefited also. The unions saw membership increase at a rate that offset the decline in real wages. Our living standards are considered expendable in order to up the membership.
Ideally the three unions would do what is best for their airline members and consolidate their ATDs. John Sweeny, head of the AFL-CIO does not dispute this, Sonny Hall does not dispute and more than likely any union minded person would not dispute that airline workers should not be split up between unions that are not industry specific, that we should be in one union, regardless of employer.
I've read and heard arguements for and against splitting us up along craft lines but whether you are an Industrial unionist, or a Craft unionist there can be no good reason given as to why our industry is split up along corporate lines.
Unfortunately for Airline workers, especially ground workers that is exactly how we are structured-along corporate lines.
Sonny Hall, in our letters about this subject could not defend the current structure, in fact in his response to this subject he replied "I fully understand the positives of having every AFL-CIO Union that represents airline industry workers, under one labor organization. Nonetheless, leaders must understand the reality ,,"
The reality is that the unions would have to be willing to make sacrifices for the good of the members, and they are not.
Sonny finished with this disingenous comment."Your union would respond to any call from the AFL-CIO leadership to meet with all the Unions involved and, at least, talk about it, but, Robert, our Lord himself may not be able to accomplish that goal."
The fact is that Sonny, as head of the TTD knew that such a call could be made by him as head of both the TTD and TWU. He also knew that the AFL-CIO does what its member unions tell it to do, not the other way around.
I approached the AFL-CIO first, they contacted me and told me they thought it was a great idea and should be pursued through our unions. I was told that the AFL-CIO could not try to push such a movement, that it had to come from the unions. Even they conceded that more than likely, due to the greed and selfishness of the unions, that the TWU, IAM and IBT would not be willing to do what everyone admits would be best for airline workers. It was even said to me that perhaps our best shot at seeing industrywide solidarity was to leave our current unions and then try to go back in as a new organization.
Being split up along corporate lines make Industrial unionism ineffective, especially when the Union has no specific interest in the industry other than the dues they get. An airport should be considered one shop, obviously having a single shop all split up along random corporate lines instead of either industrial or craft lines is detrimental to workers. It creates a condition where instead of having solidarity we are put in competition with each other. Competing by working for less than everyone else.
That said I think that we all can agree that the current structure of unionism in our industry has failed. And from my own experiences, those in control have no intentions or plans to deviate from the failed policies they have put in place. It is also clear that the undemocratic structures in place prevent us from having any real input into our collective futures. This is perhaps the biggest failure of our union. A union is supposed to give workers a voice, ours does the opposite, and they do it with our money!
I would say that the best path for airline workers who feel that we should be represented by unions that are focused on our issues, that there is only one way that this can be accomplished. We must leave the TWU, IAM and IBT. We should leave them and join industry specific unions that represent our class and craft. We should encourage these industry specific unions to collaborate together with other airline unions and form a coalition that would share facilitities and pool resources when issues of mutual interests arise.
Once established these unions rejoin the AFL-CIO as a block, like the Building Trades.
We should not judge AFL-CIO affiliation based upon our experiences as TWU, IAM or IBT represented airline workers. As I said before the AFL-CIO is a tool, in the wrong hands its useless, in the right hands its invaluable. The problem for airline workers is that it has been in the wrong hands.
By giving the company back one week of vacation it actually cost over 300 mechanics their jobs.
The fact is the TWU is The Worst Union for airline workers, whether its the largest airline -AA or the most profitable airline- SWA, the TWU represented employee is the lowest paid with the worst benefits and language.
The TWUs motives are obvious. They were not trying to "save the company" or "Save jobs". Their motive was to give AA such a competative advantage over other carriers that it would put those carriers out of business. Then AA could continue to expand and the TWU would get more members to make up for the reduced per capita.
The whole strategy was to maintain the capacity so that when the industry starts to recover AA not only has the capacity in place but has lower costs. The vacation giveback allowed the company to layoff an additional 300 mechanics without the loss of productivity. Layoffs without cost, what kind of a union would agree to make it easier to lay off? The vacation giveback gives the company and extra 1.4 million hours of labor for free.(36000 members X 40hrs). Thats nearly $30 million in salaries alone on top of all of the other concessions!
Even the SEIU recognizes that catch all unions like the TWU simply do not work.
They will not change from within, beleive me I know.
I still have not heard one valid reason why aircraft mechanics should not strive to be in one union. Only one union offers mechanics that option and its not the TWU, IAM or IBT. The fact is there is no valid reason why baggage handlers should be split up between three unions that are not industry specific either. They too should strive for unity and Solidarity with all the other baggage handlers. If all the baggage handlers were in one union they could effectively shut down the industry like any other workgroup.
The problem with the current structure is that these three unions could care less about the airlines. As far as they are concerned we are overpaid. John Kerrigan of the TWU said something to the effect of 'How much do these guys expect to make?' Years ago I was told the story of a Teamster rep who nearly fell off his chair when he heard that mechanics were going for $10/hr, right in front of the company he went on about how as a truck driver he used to make $2/hr and thought that was a good wage.
One of the things that we have to wonder about these "catch all unions", that, for the most part are led by people who never worked in this industry, is are they bartering labor peace in the airlines for pet projects in other industries such as the recent AMTRACK bailout? Are our dues and COPE dollars being used for that while our wages and benefits are gutted?
Whether or not we are being used by these unions for their own interests one thing is without dispute; The labor movement, as a whole, in the airline industry, has not been successful at protecting or maintaining the living standards of airline workers. That includes other workgroups, not just mechanics. Maybe overall industry employment is up but we are all making much less. Whatever they are doing, it has not been working for over 20 years. The worst hit groups are those who are not in industry specific union- ground workers, primarily members of the IAM and TWU.
According to most economic theories increased productivity and an expanding industry usually provide workers in that industry the opportunity for elevated living standards. Despite the facts that this industry has expanded and seen increased productivity airline workers across the board have seen declining living standards. Our decline has been worse than that experienced by the overall economy.
However, some have benefited, obviously the airlines have benefitted, so have the customers but the unions have benefited also. The unions saw membership increase at a rate that offset the decline in real wages. Our living standards are considered expendable in order to up the membership.
Ideally the three unions would do what is best for their airline members and consolidate their ATDs. John Sweeny, head of the AFL-CIO does not dispute this, Sonny Hall does not dispute and more than likely any union minded person would not dispute that airline workers should not be split up between unions that are not industry specific, that we should be in one union, regardless of employer.
I've read and heard arguements for and against splitting us up along craft lines but whether you are an Industrial unionist, or a Craft unionist there can be no good reason given as to why our industry is split up along corporate lines.
Unfortunately for Airline workers, especially ground workers that is exactly how we are structured-along corporate lines.
Sonny Hall, in our letters about this subject could not defend the current structure, in fact in his response to this subject he replied "I fully understand the positives of having every AFL-CIO Union that represents airline industry workers, under one labor organization. Nonetheless, leaders must understand the reality ,,"
The reality is that the unions would have to be willing to make sacrifices for the good of the members, and they are not.
Sonny finished with this disingenous comment."Your union would respond to any call from the AFL-CIO leadership to meet with all the Unions involved and, at least, talk about it, but, Robert, our Lord himself may not be able to accomplish that goal."
The fact is that Sonny, as head of the TTD knew that such a call could be made by him as head of both the TTD and TWU. He also knew that the AFL-CIO does what its member unions tell it to do, not the other way around.
I approached the AFL-CIO first, they contacted me and told me they thought it was a great idea and should be pursued through our unions. I was told that the AFL-CIO could not try to push such a movement, that it had to come from the unions. Even they conceded that more than likely, due to the greed and selfishness of the unions, that the TWU, IAM and IBT would not be willing to do what everyone admits would be best for airline workers. It was even said to me that perhaps our best shot at seeing industrywide solidarity was to leave our current unions and then try to go back in as a new organization.
Being split up along corporate lines make Industrial unionism ineffective, especially when the Union has no specific interest in the industry other than the dues they get. An airport should be considered one shop, obviously having a single shop all split up along random corporate lines instead of either industrial or craft lines is detrimental to workers. It creates a condition where instead of having solidarity we are put in competition with each other. Competing by working for less than everyone else.
That said I think that we all can agree that the current structure of unionism in our industry has failed. And from my own experiences, those in control have no intentions or plans to deviate from the failed policies they have put in place. It is also clear that the undemocratic structures in place prevent us from having any real input into our collective futures. This is perhaps the biggest failure of our union. A union is supposed to give workers a voice, ours does the opposite, and they do it with our money!
I would say that the best path for airline workers who feel that we should be represented by unions that are focused on our issues, that there is only one way that this can be accomplished. We must leave the TWU, IAM and IBT. We should leave them and join industry specific unions that represent our class and craft. We should encourage these industry specific unions to collaborate together with other airline unions and form a coalition that would share facilitities and pool resources when issues of mutual interests arise.
Once established these unions rejoin the AFL-CIO as a block, like the Building Trades.
We should not judge AFL-CIO affiliation based upon our experiences as TWU, IAM or IBT represented airline workers. As I said before the AFL-CIO is a tool, in the wrong hands its useless, in the right hands its invaluable. The problem for airline workers is that it has been in the wrong hands.
20,000 member x $14/week x 52 weeks =$14560000Rusty said:Bob, is that 14 million dollars a year?If only 20% of the TWU has LTD the Insurance provider collects over $14,000,000 a year with virtually no overhead-the members pay the overhead. Normally insurance companies pay salesmen a commision for sales. Is the provider paying Sonny Hall a commision for all sales to TWU members? How could we find this out?
OP
Checking it Out
Veteran
- Apr 3, 2003
- 1,702
- 0
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #34
Rusty Reality is thanks to amfa setting the stage, The work will not come back to the Airlines, Except TWU at AA. we will be working on NW and United Airplanes in the future if the trend continues.Rusty said:CIO, there is no question that all the airlines except the low cost carriers have laid off people. The major difference is some kept their pay and benefits. While the TWU advocated to give up the entire farm first. Lay offs are part of the cycle the airline industry goes through, that’s life, selling the farm first is not. At northwest Airlines when the industry turns up and hiring again, those people will come back at full pay. They might even come back early depending on an arbitrators decision. This is because they have language to protect their pay and benefits and the union did not advocate giving it back!!!
CIO, I do see where the company really does love you though, so cheer up!!!
Anyway, 3rd party maintenance will continue and and amfa will continue to allow it to happen. Point is where are the injunctions? Oh thats right? the IAM has one against USAIR.
Keep dreaming,
CIO,
At NWA, BEFORE AMFA, the IAM Negotiated HUGE CONCESSIONS which the M&R REJECTED before VOTING IN AMFA AND ALL OF THEIR INTERNATIONAL OFFICERS.
At UAL, BEFORE AMFA, the IAM Negotiated HUGE CONCESSIONS & OUTSOURCING of ALMOST ALL OVERHAUL which the M&R REJECTED before VOTING IN AMFA AND ALL OF THEIR INTERNTIONAL OFFICERS.
At AA & AE, BEFORE AMFA, the TWU has Negotiated HUGE CONCESSIONS & THE INTRODUCTION of MORE UNLICENSED PERSONELL into the AMT classification while we still cannot directly vote for ALL OF THE INTERNATIONAL AND ATD OFFICERS
At NWA, BEFORE AMFA, the IAM Negotiated HUGE CONCESSIONS which the M&R REJECTED before VOTING IN AMFA AND ALL OF THEIR INTERNATIONAL OFFICERS.
At UAL, BEFORE AMFA, the IAM Negotiated HUGE CONCESSIONS & OUTSOURCING of ALMOST ALL OVERHAUL which the M&R REJECTED before VOTING IN AMFA AND ALL OF THEIR INTERNTIONAL OFFICERS.
At AA & AE, BEFORE AMFA, the TWU has Negotiated HUGE CONCESSIONS & THE INTRODUCTION of MORE UNLICENSED PERSONELL into the AMT classification while we still cannot directly vote for ALL OF THE INTERNATIONAL AND ATD OFFICERS
Thanks to AMFA the work is leaving?Checking it Out said:Rusty Reality is thanks to amfa setting the stage, The work will not come back to the Airlines, Except TWU at AA. we will be working on NW and United Airplanes in the future if the trend continues.
Anyway, 3rd party maintenance will continue and and amfa will continue to allow it to happen. Point is where are the injunctions? Oh thats right? the IAM has one against USAIR.
Keep dreaming,
Try again, thanks to the TWU.
UAL was not likely to get overhaul workers in SFO to work for the wages that the TWU negotiated for OSMs in Tulsa OK.
USAIR was not going to get overhaul workers in Pittsburg to agree to AAs OSM wages either.
The fact is that the TWU undercut everyone else even prior to the concessions we took in April. The other AFL-CIO represented unions were undercut not by AMFA but by the TWU.
They are trying to compete with AA, not NWA.
Nice try.
The fact is that OZARK Airlines , a pure AMFA contract, was far superior to any other contract out there at the time. OZARK workers, a non-AFL-CIO union got FULL integration with TWA because of AMFAs successorship clause. They did better than IAM represented workers did with fellow AFL-CIO member TWU.
The TWU has been undercutting and giving away A&P work for over twenty years but somehow in your twisted mind it's all AMFAs fault. It took bankrupcty this year for UAL to get what the TWU gave AA twenty years ago. Is that AMFA's fault?
The only thing that you can accurately fault AMFA for is raising the bar for mechanics wages to $35/hr.
What is the TWU's plan to elevate the wages of their workers? Give more concessions until every other carrier is out of business?
Will the work come back to the airlines? Probably, outsourcing on a large scale usually has its costs too. Decreased quality, longer layup times, loss of control over the process, in the end the company that is doing the work for an airline is making a profit off doing work for the airline. That margin could be the airlines instead of the contractors. However we may never see overhaul in high cost areas again. Flying an airplane to Tulsa or Georgia is not as bad as flying it empty to Singapore. Other companies will probably try to follow the TWU/AA model and locate there overhaul in low cost areas. Who needs foreign overhaul when you have places like Tulsa and Kansas City?
The fact is the only reason why AA keeps work in house is because we do it cheaper than outsourcing when everything is counted, this was true before the concessions. What prevents AA from outsoucing our work? Not our contract, economics. If we are content to be the lowest paid, in order to keep our jobs, then why do we need to give two hours pay per month to the TWU?
<_< cio, I guess that the heavy C checks on the MD80's in OKC by AAR don't count since it was the twu that gave them away! They were even being done before your P.O.S. concessions to AA. :down:Checking it Out said:.
Anyway, 3rd party maintenance will continue and and amfa will continue to allow it to happen. Point is where are the injunctions? Oh thats right? the IAM has one against USAIR.
,
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