Management Presents "plan" To Afa

[BoeingBoy]

funguy2,

Thanks for fleshing out the CAL history. I sometimes think these folks want the "ethics manual" changed so that instead of requiring permission for an outside job it requires an outside job. Then we could all afford to pay for the pleasure of working for US Air.

Jim

 

[UseYourHead]

It's so painfully obvious that both of your agendas are to try to make labor come around to MANAGEMENTS way of thinking. Both of you are management incognito and I don't care what you claim! NW and Cal both cut their work force in half and outsourced tons of work. Do you believe that after we took two concessions and TONS of headcount loss people are willing going to lay down and die, sure they will. At least have the balls to admit who you are. Doing otherwise is pathetic and makes look management worse than they already are.

756pro,

I simply do not share your view of the world, that does not make me management. This message board is for debate; Are you afraid or unable to do that?

Let me get this right. You would rather "show management, teach them a lesson, that you're fed up and are not going to take it anymore"...kinda like what they did at Eastern right? Knock yourself out, but don't expect everyone else to follow. I can predict how that will turn out right now.

Continental, Northwest, TWA, and America West all took massive cuts out sourcing, and the airlines did what they had to do to stay afloat; had it not been for these and others actions they would be history....

 

[PITbull]

At the risk of getting back to the topic...

PitBull,

Now that the initial euphoria has worn off I have just one simple question. I'm not asking that you divulge any details, but did you hear of anything in the plan that couldn't have been implemented 6 months ago if management so desired?

Just wondering.

Jim

Boeing boy,

There is nothing in this plan that couldn't have been implemented even in the summer of 2002. Its a plan that has the key elements to the SW model. We now will beat them at their own game if its not too late to turn the clock.

Management was using their own business model of downsizing and labor costs and never bothered to improve the product and change the model to address the revenue equation. There is items in this business model that can be implemented without labor costs.

But, contrary to what the media is saying, without management changes towards the employees across the board and specifically with our group, there can be no further discussions for givebacks, permanent or otherwise.

 

[marco90821]

Once again most of you miss the point. If you elect to not go with the plan you will be sans job. What can you do...there are pilots working at Home Depot as construction consultants and F/As working at the local gay bar in drag. It doesn't pay the bills. If you accept the new plan and work towards profitablity and growth, then the salary will go along with that plan. If you choose for the "well is dry" mentality, then you will choose the unemployment line.

 

[PITbull]

Hey Marco,

You are talking to the group that 's not moving unless mangement changes their managing style. Not hard to do and doesn't cost anything. Our folks are in distress because of the punitive policies in place.


I suggest you get prepared for the unemployment line and prepare your resume. We aren't thinking of giving up our quality of life untless things change. HOpe you trust management to do the right thing, and sounds like you don't. So prepare yourself and stop whinning.

 

[756pro]

No deleted you don't share that view, either does Dave!

Debate added with deception, the normal mode of operations for this management team.

You are not my oracle and Dave sure in the hell isn't either. I along most people with any kind of self worth realize they have given this management team more than enough to make a go of it.

Coming around for round three when what we already gave in jobs, benefits and wages, at the same time management handed out bonuses to all of these so called geniuses only to see it ALL pissed down the drain! And then you come on here trying to justify more blood. YOU'RE INSANE is the best way I can describe your kind, either that or you are MANAGEMENT'S mouth piece. You and your cronies can kiss my behind before I give another red cent!

 

[marco90821]

Wow, no wonder the company is doing so poorly. We have employees placing disclaimers that they are not a US Air employee. In case you didn't know, the company is now US Airways Group, the holding company of the beloved US Airways. Seems the mentality will never change.

 

[700UW]

Simply NOT TRUE!!!!!!!! Your correct in the sense of doing just that "only" However CAL was a combo of many higher paid jobs and before it was all over with , the entire system was gutted including employee work rules and pay! For the most part they didnt have a choice.

When Frank Lorenzo took CAL into BK the first time there was no section 1113 protections.
Tell all the Facts:
With one swipe of a pen, CAL's unionized employees no longer had a contract, work rules, gaurented pay and numerous other things. The union certification was voided and Lorenzo broke all the unions and all the employees.

One year later Congress enacted sections 1113 forcing the company to negoitate instead of being able to use carte blanche and wipe out their unions and contracts.

So the employees did not save CAL, Lorenzo raped them and CAL had to go thru BK again.

Some FYI:

One item 1113 letter, which refers to the section of code that ensures that a company negotiates with the union before they seek abrogation of the labor agreement. When a company seeks protection, the agreement remains in effect. When a union negotiates an 1113 letter it secures an agreement with the company showing that the company will not seek further cuts from labor. To this date, no company that has had an 1113 letter negotiated has ever asked the court to abrogate it.

The debtor in possession must have made a proposal to the union.

The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable information available at the time of the proposal.

The modification must be necessary to permit reorganization.

The modification must provide that all affected parties be treated fairly and equitably.

The debtor must provide the union with such relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.

The debtor must have met with the collective bargaining representative at the reasonable times subsequent to making the proposal.

The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal in good faith.

The union must have refused to accept the proposal with good cause.

The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.

 

[marco90821]

Pitbull, Can you read and comprehend. Your post is fruitless. I am trusting in mgmnt, that is the point. I hope to God you are not a mechanic or pilot, you would cause our next major incident. Oh, that's right, you are not an employee...but you log over 2,000 posts to the UAIR forum. Why all the interest?

 

[700UW]

UseYourHead, I guess you did not use yours.

TWA is gone, has been gone for several years, and there are only a handfull left at AA as they were not given their full seniority rights and were all laid off.

AWA's employees are one of the lowest paid in the industry andt the employees were forced to give concessions as they were non-union.

Secondly AWA was levied one of the highest fines imposed by the FAA for maintenance failures as they laid off most of their mechanics and vendored out the work, in the settlement AWA had to bring back X # of mechanics and bring work back inhouse and put in place very strict oversight of their vendors.

You pay for what you get for!

Eastern, Braniff (twice), Midway (three times), National, Air South, Vangaurd, TWA and numerous others were never saved by the blood of their employees. More airlines have been created and gone out of business since deregulation in 1978 then the previous 50 years.

And to Marco, we know you are management, yep lets trust Dave after he has lied, stolen and violated every labor group's contract. I got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn for you if you actually believe what you post.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

marco90821...


this company ....ah forget it


..full pay till the last day...ok bucko

 

[756pro]

usflibo and useyourhead and the rest of them are out in full force trying to hide the facts and beg labor to sacrifice themselves so they can all get very rich very quick. Read their posts for entertainment because it's such a joke it's funny and entertaining.

 

[javaboy]

any odds on if the new plan will include a simplified fare structure?

just like alaska's?

or ones suggested sice the mid 90s?

LEAD follow or get out of the way

 

[756pro]

Like I said living in the Lorenzo past serves no one.

Bob

Extreme aversion or hostility towards labor leaders serves no purpose and is a moot point on this board anyway, plus your attitude bad for your soul Bob.

 

[700UW]

Bob, what are you smoking?

I was pointing out to usfliboi his facts were wrong. And you always have to know what has happened in history so it does not repeat itself.

And if you think Lorenzo (who is still alive) saved CO you are way off base. He ruined EAL and CAL. You know he must have been pretty bad when the US Congress changes the laws to prevent anyone from raping and pillaging his employees. And the DOT has banned Lorenzo from ever owning or managing any airline.

And Dave is following Lorenzo management style.

And Dave earned $4 million for 27,000 employees and Tom Buffenbarger earnd $193,000 for 637,000 IAM members. Hmm, who gets the bigger bang for their buck? Keep up your anti-union diatribe cause it just makes you look foolish.

Bob, we know you hate unions, but you can't justify Dave's salary when he compares labor to the LCCs, WN's employees make way more then US employees and they are all unionized. Neeleman from JetBlue made $200,000 last year.

If Dave wants to lead by example, he should not draw any salary, expenses or stock options till he makes a profit and WN and B6 know what their greatest asset is, THE EMPLOYEES! Something Dave does not know a darn thing about.