Management Presents "plan" To Afa

[PITbull]

Kitty and First,

AFA is bound to "confidentiality" of the plan on the particulars. You will definitely know the plan. The big piece for labor, is what is the cost for our participation. This is where the queezyness comes in. But the very first thing for management to do now, is start the bridge building with labor.

 

[FlyingHippie]

Heck, I could live easily on a Pilots Monthly Guarantee. No Sweat. :angry:

ktflyhome a majority of pilots are finding they can't live on that guarantee either. Then again, it takes a pilot a lot more time to get to that income level vs. six weeks of flight attendant training. Keep that in perspective. Everybody's life changed two years ago a lot of people were living on the edge then. Now these people are hanging off the cliff by their fingertips. Basically they'll do anything to keep from falling. Its human nature at its worst. Everybody has issues even if they make more money than you don't assume they are home free. Many aren't.

 

[ktflyhome]

Pitbull, do you really, really think that Management cares one Hoot about building any bridges with labor???? They may attempt to start the building, but it won't be long before they will start tearing it down again.

And I am just really curious, what can they possibly do at this juncture to build up labor morale and confidance. Put my losses back in my pocket would be starters for me.

They are sneaky and conniving and I don't doubt for one minute that they have a hidden agenda. Sorry, that is just the way I feel. I truly hope all works out for all of us.

 

[700UW]

The last time I checked, the IAM does not set the staffing levels, lays people off or tell the company how to run their business.

So how does the IAM throw the Fleet and Utility under the bus if they have no control over the staffing levels?

 

[ktflyhome]

FlyingHippie: Believe, me, I am no spring chicken, I have been around the block a time or two and I understand exactly what you are saying. I pretty well do have things in perspective, just get a little frustrated from time to time.

Things sure did change 2 years ago. Will never forget 9-11. That is my birthday too. 🙁

 

[Bud8EE]

Where commuters use to be able to be in base and pay additonal expenses for commuting and having a "pad", is no longer affordable. The job acutally costs them money at their pay rate. At your pay rate, you still make way above average wages. Therefore, commuting is still affordable and condusive. Many of our reserves have child care issues as we are 82% female and many have given birth. Those expenses to be paid to care givers just for f/as to remain on call but not be used, isexpensive. Some just can't afford it and risk not calling a sitter in. Many of our f/as use to work additional jobs to subsidize the concessions, the reserve system has cut that ability or puts f/as in jeopardy when they try to work the same way to replace the income, but get caught out of base. Flight attendants are being called to work into their OFF days on a regular basis instead of occasionally like in the past. The anxiety is high and fear of being terminated in anticipation that something "might" go wrong places employees in "distress. In addition, because of "displacements" of our f/as in LGA and DCA, at their pay level, it has become an impossible "feat", even to the point that the f/as call in tears to their union reps for these debts and in fear of losing everything. Couple those expenses with additonal medical expenses for those f/as who have chronic illnesses, and pay penalities for sick, and you are an employee heading for disaster. And God forbid, you are a single parent.

If the resign, they get basically nothing, no unemployement, nothing.

PitBull,

I am not validating UAIR management in any way here but you speak to personal lifestyle choices which are an individuals responsibility and not a company's. Every individual who commutes to work instead of living in base does so by choice. There should never be complaint one about the time or expens of commuting. Airlines are the only jobs that afford the abilty to work in one city and live in another. That is simply an individuals choice and not the company's responsibility to work around. It's supposed to be the other way around. If an individual elects to do it then there is "time on the road" and expense issues that are part of the deal. They have a choice, move to base, quit, or don't complain about the lifestyle choices that are theirs to make. If people lived in base and flew less under this new system, they actuall would be sitting in their own house on call. When you live where your based, reserve isn't that bad. As to conflict with child rearing, again it's an individual's responsibility to set their priorities in life. I don't care whether the person is a man or woman but when the decision to know the joy of having children is made, responsibility is attached to it. If your the primary caretaker be it mother or father and you job conflicts with that, then priorities have to be set and adjusted to. Almost every fast food joint in my town is begging for applicants into the management system. 35-40k to start for 50 hours a week. Not something I am interested in but I would do it before I would sacrifice my financial state or the rearing of my children. I personally would put my own needs or the need for job satisfaction above my children. I would grind it out in a unsatisfying job as above first. I hate to be preachy but what you mention above are personal choices. Being an "on call" employee and balancing childcare issue's or expense and time commuting so a person can live where theydesire and not where their company stationed them is an individual call. It's not the companies responsibility to manage life choices. If kids and the profession don't mix, choose one or the other. If commuting conflicts with expenses or quality of live, live where you work, accept the hassle without complaint or quit.

I am not going to defend the gross mismanagement incompetance of the last 15 years or the tactless way things have been done. I would always laugh when I would here people whine about commuting from podunk Iowa to work. Be happy corporate policy allows you this flexibility and accept the hassle or move. No one is forcing you to commute.

 

[delldude]

big skin meeting...very interesting...
hearing 4 utes wacked out of ssb and being added to 431....mar 1st. i believe.

Wow,

I know from my time in PIT 431-001 (Hangar 5)....and 435-001 (Hanagrs 1 and 2) We were gosh awefully short on utility during last winter and spring.

CLT 431-001 has the same issues...but the lack of actual mechanics , especially on the weekends is very damning in regards to making any progress.

I'n not sure what's at hand here?...but if clean airplanes are of any concern to this management group? They sure have a strange way of showing it. 🙁

lack of actual mechanics , especially on the weekends is very damning in regards to making any progress.
some one ought to look into the days off issue...is it good for the production end to have 2 crews per dock off on either sat or sun??
I'n not sure what's at hand here?...but if clean airplanes are of any concern to this management group? They sure have a strange way of showing it.
last i heard they were solving this problem in 2 out stations by outsourcing covered work to 3rd parties....duh.... :angry:

 

[PITbull]

Somewhere you missed something here.

We f/as or reserves took the job, when there was flexibility in the job that allowed for comuting. That flexibility has evaporated. It was soley through the concessions we gave management at the threat of liquidation.

Its like saying you take a job and no all the rules and live it for 15 years, than abrubtly those rules change because they are not condusive to the co. Any job you take in life, you can commute. I have friends who work dowtown pittsburgh that come from Erie, PA and Cleveland. They travel by care to and from, and stay in apartments to maintain their work.

You are sadly mistaken if you are assuming that only airline workers commute or are allowed (as you put it) to commute.

The "bar" has been lowered, and the point here is that management comes back again and wants more concessions. If they want it, they have to change their management style and culture, like it, or lump it. They won't get what they seek without that overt change.

That is again Corporate reality for this mangement from my perch.

 

[diogenes]

The last time I checked, the IAM does not set the staffing levels, lays people off or tell the company how to run their business.

So how does the IAM throw the Fleet and Utility under the bus if they have no control over the staffing levels?

Easy.

How many mechs have currently been expressed?

None.

How about fleet?

Many, and the body count continues to rise.

But, you say, wait. Expression was voted on fair and square.

Ah, now we get to my thesis - that IAM will toss the unwilling overboard.

Small stations get expressed. Hubs don't.

Where are the votes, though? In the hubs.

It wasn't rocket science to convince the hubs to 'save' themselves. "An injury to one is an injury to all" and all that 'brotherhood' went right out the window.

And tell me. How easy is it to replace the whores that sold this bill of goods. You know for all practical purposes, it can't be done.

Here's another kicker. For all practical purposes, the bulk of fleet in the hubs handles baggage, and that's about it. Sure, you have a few that work the tower or load control, but they are a small minority.

In the out stations, here's what has changed at fleet in the past decade.

Out stations are weight and balance qualified. Not so in the hubs.

Out stations are freight qualified, which exposes one to DOT, DOA, FAA, TSA and US Customs regs and fines. Not so in the hubs.

Out stations clean, deice, security inspect and air start. Not so in the hubs.

Any other groups' productivity increased that much? Yet in the hubs, a bag handler is still just a bag handler. Yet perversely, the bag handler's status quo is not likely to change, while the out station agent who has seriously upgraded his productivity is about to get screwed.

All with the blessing of his 'brothers' and 'leadership.'

And that 'leadership' is negotiating fleet MAA as we speak.

You'll understand my concerns.

I am all for the union. It's just in need of some adjustment.

 

[700UW]

Lets 9/11/01 there were 33 maintenance stations, now there are 18, we don't get expressed we either bump or get laid off, we don't have the option of being expressed. There are at least 2,000 less mechanics now then 9/11/01.

And if the company is succesful in winning the airbus farmout it will be the end of maintenance as we know it.

Let see over the years, SAN, GSO, INT, ROA and UCA all which were major mtc bases are closed now.

And did you know maintenance is the only part of this airline that can make money without one passenger?

But the company fails to utilize this option of generating revenue.

Last time I check your fellow fleet service workers ratified the contract, not the AGCs.

And they only way to change the leadership is to get involved and get active, the deck is stacked against you, but with enough determination it can be done.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

You folks got a lightning bolt up the arse and even that didn"t do the trick

There is no time for wimpy "management must change" and cosmetic improvements to your business model.

Why can't you accept that you and your union are just being strung out until the plug is pulled?

 

[diogenes]

700UW,

At fleet, expression is not a subsitute for furlough, it's in addition to it.

A standing, 'slate' AGC has been overturned by a member off the floor?

Pray, good man, tell me when and where. I'd love to go to school on that one.

And again, true enough on the vote.

What happened to an injury to one is an injury to all?

 

[700UW]

Well when you get bumped as an M&R unless you have seniorty to hold another bid area or station, you get laid off, and when you bump someone it leads to someone being laid off.

It happened many moons ago in DL 141 when we were all one district.

It is hard to too but with time, money and effort it can be done.

It boils down to majority rules.

 

[ktflyhome]

Just what thread are we on here???????? :huh: :huh: :blink:

 

[BoeingBoy]

At the risk of getting back to the topic...

PitBull,

Now that the initial euphoria has worn off I have just one simple question. I'm not asking that you divulge any details, but did you hear of anything in the plan that couldn't have been implemented 6 months ago if management so desired?

Just wondering.

Jim