Man the lifeboats...............

[odie01]

1)Name calling such as "shill", "twits", one would think we can have a bit of a better adult/intellectual discussion... 🙄
2)I have my own investment company - which puts me out of the "company shill" department.
3)Recently joining this website is rather irrelevant, especially considering I'm a "veteran" on many other boards.
4)Unlike you, I "call it as I see it". If you bother to read my comments intently, you would have figured out I'm not the biggest fan of current the management either. You glossing over doesn't change it.
5)Its actually loyal customers like me who year-after-year pay a premium to fly AA (over its competitors) which has been paying for your salary, retirement, etc.

In other words, your losing your arse on AMR stock because of those greedy labor unions that saved our airline from bankruptcy. You should have shorted at 7 sucker, AA is not willing to negotiate in good faith, and your gonna be stuck in the high 4's/low 5's for a while. 😱

 

[Frank Szabo]

In other words, your losing your arse on AMR stock because of those greedy labor unions that saved our airline from bankruptcy. You should have shorted at 7 sucker, AA is not willing to negotiate in good faith, and your gonna be stuck in the high 4's/low 5's for a while. 😱

My sentiments exactly.

The line of thought would seem to be:

"Maybe if I get on their discussion site and twist their toes and scare them a bit the stock will go up a bit and I'll have enough to take the old lady out for New Year's".

Then again, maybe he's got a boyfriend ... who knows?

FYI, Odie - had we called the company's bluff in 2003, and bankruptcy actually was filed, we'd have been over it now and byhaps making money. It's doubtful that will happen now as, with the October 2005 change in the Chapter 11 law, the company would lose too much control over the process. Had the law not changed, I'm sure they'd have filed by now.

The problem is no AMR-sized airlines has filed for "protection" since before the laws changed and nobody has a clue how the courts will react but my guess is rather unfavorably as the courts may not care for the "strategic" bankruptcy filings anymore.

 

[AANOTOK]

Jacobin,

Please tell me exactly why you just happen to show up. Seriously, I would like to know your motive.

Also, as much as you and the other "I pay your salary fliers" like to deny it, we most definitely subsidize

your cheap flying. I don't care what you pay, $500 or $5000, you can bet your "I pay your salary" ass

that my givebacks have allowed you to fly cheaper than what you would have been paying.

YOUR WELCOME!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken,

A few items:

It was really previous Chairman Carty and a few others in management who kept his pensions while telling everyone to "make sacrifices". Once it was found out his pension was safe, he was forced to resign. Also, this is really considered "standard industry practice" so it wasn't anything new.

The current management bonuses from a few years ago were approved by the union(s)....can't blame management on that. Unions had the right to take the deal (for stock options) as well.

Also, perhaps one should realize "market forces" vary and change...sometimes quite violently. Its quite apparent that current employee costs (especially pilots) are not in-line with current market rates....and that is including the 28% "haircut".

Eventually, there will be too few pilots, ramp workers, F/A's, etc. and this will once again lead to more "pricing power" for the aforementioned bunch.

I don't want to offend people here, but it is quite "cut and dry". AA has one of the highest (if not highest) costs in the industry.

Here's an item you do not seem to realize...

AArpey CONTINUED the greed AFTER cAArty left. If AArpey was to be "different" where we could all trust him he certainly failed tremendously! The unions approved the bonuses? Well then, if AArpey was a TRUE LEADER like Herb and Bethune and C.R. you would have thought that bonuses would have been postponed till AA was in better shape. Instead AArpey and Gang continue to drink from "the black chalice of greed".

It's called PRINCIPLES! Something you and AArpey do not believe in.
Has management made mistakes? Sure. I don't have the kindest of words for management either but denying AA's high cost structure is like believing the world is flat...

 

[Jacobin777]

Point, the TWU will be here for a long time, yet to come.....

Highly unfortunate.

It's an unfortunate thing that even though I have you on ignore, that when another chooses to address your tripe your comment shows up.

I don't give a damn how much a "veteran" you are on other boards or this one, for that matter (showing up around contract time says volumes), or if you actually do have your own investment company, even if it's only for yourself (a wise move). Your "importance" just doesn't matter to me and many others on this board.

I only care about what you say here - supporting a company, in any fashion, for destroying its morale is rather reprehensible to me, to say the least - kinda like offering aid and comfort to known terrorists.

Being a "loyal customer"? I won't fly on any airline again, mainly because of the TSA and having no desire to land in Federal Prison because I won't tolerate being molested. There are other GOOD reasons I refuse to fly nor will I get tickets for family as well. You might want to think about that for a while.

In short - if you desire to defend AMR in any way (having no basis in the industry), you will be called a shill and numerous other things on this board. Many, unlike me, won't place you on ignore as they enjoy an argument - I don't, at least not about labor vs: greed.

By the way - It's people like me that have been subsidizing your cheap tickets with our pay (a 30% hit) since 2003.

1)Using terms as "tripe" with your rhetoric doesn't change the fact you are nothing short of boorish IMHO. Which is fine by me. 😉
2) I stated a FACT which is paying pax pays your salary (and no need to get "technical" with the fact its AA which "signs" your checks) and many other of your colleagues. If you start your own company I hope you aren't as truculent to your potential customers as you are on this board.
3)The "terrorist" comment is a joke. The APA practically said the same thing about AArpey-going as so far to calling him a "killer". Ostensibly, bullying, name calling, is rather the ethos of unions - your comments, amongst others prove my point. I support AA because I have an interest in seeing the company succeed. I have no family or friends associated with AA. On the contrary, a few of my clients are United Pilots. Certainly it would behoove me to see AA go under and allow UA to thrive even more at places such as ORD, LAX, etc. Regardless, I wouldn't like to see unemployment go up even more. At the end of the day however, AA is a business and it must pay its bills and be competitive. This should be axiomatic (which unfortunately it doesn't seem to be by many on this board).
4)I fly enough to know how to deal with the TSA, etc. I don't know what your point is anyway.
5)"Subsidizing"...now that's a strange way of seeing things. You think I should pay even more than 20% to support your lifestyle? I don't purchase priceline.com tix (i.e.bidding). I fly when I need to -be it discount or full fare. Maybe you should learn (and understand) what the term "market forces" means. Judging from your comments, you are quite oblivious to it.

Regards. 🙂

In other words, your losing your arse on AMR stock because of those greedy labor unions that saved our airline from bankruptcy. You should have shorted at 7 sucker, AA is not willing to negotiate in good faith, and your gonna be stuck in the high 4's/low 5's for a while. 😱

I'm sure you meant "in other words, I have no idea what I am talking about because you don't have any stock in AMR", but lets not let facts get in the way.

My sentiments exactly.

The line of thought would seem to be:

"Maybe if I get on their discussion site and twist their toes and scare them a bit the stock will go up a bit and I'll have enough to take the old lady out for New Year's".

Then again, maybe he's got a boyfriend ... who knows?

Yup, making groundless and baseless accusations..why am I not surprised...? 🙄

Jacobin,

Please tell me exactly why you just happen to show up. Seriously, I would like to know your motive.

Also, as much as you and the other "I pay your salary fliers" like to deny it, we most definitely subsidize

your cheap flying. I don't care what you pay, $500 or $5000, you can bet your "I pay your salary" ass

that my givebacks have allowed you to fly cheaper than what you would have been paying.

YOUR WELCOME!

1)Simple, I have been following this board for a while and I wanted to make some comments/opinions. Last I recall, this is an "airlines/aviation forum" and is open to people who so wish to discuss about airlines and aviation Also, unlike others, I don't need to stoop down to name calling or making derogatory remarks.
2)There is no motive. You are not subsiding my flying. In fact, because of AA's bloated salary structure, I actually pay more for practically the same services some other company can give me at a lesser price. Maybe you should take (or retake if you have already) "econ 101" in college to understand how market forces work. I will not explain it to you.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------Jacobin 777,------- When is the last time you put your livelihood on the line?------ These people do it every day!!! What's that worth to you? ------- Come on! Put a number on it!!! Did you know if these people screw up, people get killed!!! ----- Put a number on that smart ass!------- I've been retired over three years now, and the FAA can still , fine me, put me in jail, and revoke my license, if they find something wrong with an Aircraft I worked on!!! When I, or any other AMT, signs off work on an aircraft, that paper stays with that aircraft until that aircraft goes to the bone yard, no matter who owns it.------ There are aircraft flying around that are more than fifty years old!!! FAA can still come back to you at any time. There are no statute of limitations in the Airline industry!!!------- What is that worth? Come on!-----Total it up! Put a number to it!!!---------- Oh yea! next time you fly on United, or SW, don't forget about all those South American unlicensed workers, who don't speak, or read, English, that haven't been tested for drugs, and are paid $ 2.00@hr.,that have just got done installing the landing gear, and flight controls, on the aircraft your flying cross country in! --------- Thank God for all those Union workers that designed, and built, redundancy into that 777 aircraft at Boeing!!!

 

[eolesen]

AA has money to invest in passenger luxuries like powerports, in-flight entertainment and lie flat seats, but doesn't have the money to invest in the professionals taking care of the planes or the planes themselves.

Luxuries?...

When I'm paying between $300 and $500 an hour for a seat, it's hardly considered a luxury to work on the flight over, or get six hours sleep. When I have to fly to Japan or Brasil, it's essential.

Don't underestimate the value of this disparity between AA and the rest of the international carriers... Without customers, there's no point in having planes for you to maintain.

 

[AANOTOK]

1)Simple, I have been following this board for a while and I wanted to make some comments/opinions. Last I recall, this is an "airlines/aviation forum" and is open to people who so wish to discuss about airlines and aviation Also, unlike others, I don't need to stoop down to name calling or making derogatory remarks.
2)There is no motive. You are not subsiding my flying. In fact, because of AA's bloated salary structure, I actually pay more for practically the same services some other company can give me at a lesser price. Maybe you should take (or retake if you have already) "econ 101" in college to understand how market forces work. I will not explain it to you.

As for number 1, I don't recall anyone telling you not to come around and post. You are correct, free for all to visit and post. After all, you are a veteran of the boards.

And number 2, yes Jacob, without my concessions, airfares would be higher throughout the industry. Other airlines did it through BK and of course AA did it through the TWU. So yes, not only am I subsidizing your fares, all employees throughout the industry are as well.

Finally Jacob, maybe you need to retake "econ 101" if you are voluntarily paying more for the same service. And it's my understanding that our service is some of the worst. If that is indeed the case, you might need more than just an econ class!

 

[737823]

I only care about what you say here - supporting a company, in any fashion, for destroying its morale is rather reprehensible to me, to say the least - kinda like offering aid and comfort to known terrorists.

What a despicable comment. I don't think he is saying he supports AA destroying the morale but rather supports AA in making the changes and reforms necessary to return to sustained profitability which is your interest and the interest of all other AA employees.

Being a "loyal customer"? I won't fly on any airline again, mainly because of the TSA and having no desire to land in Federal Prison because I won't tolerate being molested. There are other GOOD reasons I refuse to fly nor will I get tickets for family as well. You might want to think about that for a while.

Well you're doing us all a favor by not using D2 and D3 passes. If you're so unhappy flying AA and decide not to that's your prerogative. Being molested isn't how I describe my interactions with the TSA but rather inexperienced, unprofessional, uninterested and incompetent better describe my experiences. Many are truly clueless about working with the general public let alone security procedures are more concerned about when they take lunch break then paying attention to the passengers. Spend sometime at BOS, EWR, or JFK and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

By the way - It's people like me that have been subsidizing your cheap tickets with our pay (a 30% hit) since 2003.

Couldn't be further from the truth. It's more like the airlines have little pricing power and consumers are unwilling to pay more in order to fund you pay increases and other contract demands.

Josh

 

[737823]

Jacobin,

Please tell me exactly why you just happen to show up. Seriously, I would like to know your motive.

Also, as much as you and the other "I pay your salary fliers" like to deny it, we most definitely subsidize

your cheap flying. I don't care what you pay, $500 or $5000, you can bet your "I pay your salary" ass

that my givebacks have allowed you to fly cheaper than what you would have been paying.

YOUR WELCOME!

Why does it matter why he is here? I imagine like me, he travels a lot for business and enjoys commercial aviation. Many finance and investment professionals like myself often enjoy researching, discussing, and evaluating different of view and sources of information. Unlike others on this board generally we're willing to engage with people who we may not agree with but can entertain their view points.

Please be respectful to the other posters. I remember I didn't receive the most warm welcome when I came last year but have enjoyed contributing to the discussion.


Josh

 

[737823]

Say what you wan't about unions....But there is equality and pay for memebers regardless of race, religion, and sex...

Because unions promote and operate solely on tenure-not merit or performance. I'm not denying that discrimination exists as I've been subject to it throughout my career. I've learned to deal with it, put the best face forward and take advantage of every opportunity. Personally I'm not convinced the unions prevent discrimination. Often times union leadership is more concerned with protecting the interests of the senior members while compromising those of the less senior. Other federal, state, and local protections exist and better protect my interests than a collective bargaining agent.

Josh

 

[tech2101]

I don't see the forcing you to stay with their company. If you don't like it, quit the company.

I was with you until you used the tired old lame phrase above.

Some people want to actually improve the company from within. You are not leader material with that paradigm.

 

[737823]

Welcome aboard Jacobin777 don't let the disgruntled employee posters turn you off. The more I read your posts the more I like them. I think you bring a nice balance and fresh perspective to this forum.

I thought it was all about working hard and the United States being "the land of opportunity"..my dad came to the United States with only $10 half a century ago. He worked the day he landed. Except for weekends, he has worked 6-7 days/week and 14-16 per day for the past 50 years. He still works every weekends, even though he's in his 70's and can retire and set his own work rules and hours. I can't recall this past 1-2 generations where unions have espoused such a hard work ethic.

People work hard and those who have the extra "oomph" get to the top.

My sentiment exactly.

I don't see the forcing you to stay with their company. If you don't like it, quit the company.

But remember AA isn't so bad after all since many of their employees are the most expensive and least productive (not all work groups)

Josh

 

[AANOTOK]

Why does it matter why he is here? I imagine like me, he travels a lot for business and enjoys commercial aviation. Many finance and investment professionals like myself often enjoy researching, discussing, and evaluating different of view and sources of information. Unlike others on this board generally we're willing to engage with people who we may not agree with but can entertain their view points.

Please be respectful to the other posters. I remember I didn't receive the most warm welcome when I came last year but have enjoyed contributing to the discussion.


Josh

737823, I feel pretty confident Jacob is fully capable of speaking on his behalf. As a matter of fact, he has already demonstrated such.
How about you respect other folks conversations and not butt in. <_<

 

[strikeforce]

Luxuries?...

When I'm paying between $300 and $500 an hour for a seat, it's hardly considered a luxury to work on the flight over, or get six hours sleep. When I have to fly to Japan or Brasil, it's essential.

Don't underestimate the value of this disparity between AA and the rest of the international carriers... Without customers, there's no point in having planes for you to maintain.

Well, maybe I'll think of you when I lock out that first class seat "in the upright position" instead of fixing it. Don't underestimate the power of the AMT the next time you're waiting at the gate for a flight to Japan, and "poof" the plane is OTS because AA fails to carry the part needed to fix your plane.

Bottom line......AMT's don't care if you pay $300 or $500 or $10,000 an hour for that seat.....that's your choice, but we are in the business of making sure YOU ARRIVE SAFE to your next destination, and NOT in a coffin! Just remember that the next time you board an AA flight.

Now, don't you think it's in AA's best interest, as well as, YOURS, in keeping AMT's happy????? I do!!

So, you and others on this board keep supporting a cast of characters named Arpey, Horton, Reding and Durst......because they're doing a mighty fine job of keeping YOU safe! I gotta laugh!!!!

On a more serious note.....the guys I just mentioned above can care less if you make it or not.....they just want your business. Trust me!