M and R negotiations

[TRAVIS]

You can believe that bull #### if you choose.
I lived under the IAM, AMFA and IBT.
IMHO, for M&R AMFA is the best choice.
The IAM is better than IBT.
For M&R, the ibt is the twu on steroids!
You think the IAM is bad?
Go IBT and then weep.
Seeking change for the sake of change is not always a wise move.
The facts are out there. Educate yourself and others.
Don't trust the propaganda.

B) xUT

I lived under the IAM,and IBT also no union in my 30+ years of M&R.
IMHO, for M&R out of the two IBT is the best choice.
As far as AMFA I have not been under then yet an would vote for them over the IAM but AMFA is not running a campaign at US and the IAM needs to go NOW and let someone else get us a new CBA while it is open for Nego's at this time.
I can't take the chance AMFA will win at AA.

 

[700UW]

How is the IBT the best choice when your HP CBA had all heavy checks outsourced, except a few c-checks?

Look at the IBT's track record, largest percentage of outsourced worked, CO/UA and UPS.

And how come half the M&R in SFO were forced to be members in LAX, taking away their rights to basically participate?

 

[TRAVIS]

700 BACK TO YOUR LIES AND TWISTING THE FACTS.

The IBT at AWA never did C-Checks not even a few as you said. (lie)
CO/UA Outsourced under the IAM on property now the IBT has to fight to get back work and jobs.(twist the facts).
As far as SFO and LAX the merger is still in work and I do not work for them but am sure they get a vote.(miss lead).

How many times do you need to be told. ALL OUTSOURCED WORK WAS IN PLACE BEFORE THE IBT WAS VOTED IN AT AWA (HP) AND ON THE UP SIDE WHEN THE IBT GOT OUR FIRST CONTRACT IT SAID IF A OUTSOURCED JOB WAS DONE IN HOUSE IT STAYED IN HOUSE. THIS BROUGHT BACK JOBS AND OUTSOURCED WORK THAT WAS LOST PRIOR TO THE IBT BEING VOTED IN.

AWA HAD NO TECH'S ON LAYOFF IBT GOT THE JOBS BACK UNLIKE THE IAM AT USAIR WHO HAS HUNDREDS OF TECH'S ON LAYOFF AND STILL DOES.

If the EAST would have voted in the IBT at the merger with the AWA / US and with the IBT CBA in Nego's as it was at the time, We had the company in a good position to renegotiate all C-Checks to bring back work and jobs that the IAM lost I hope the east can see the IAM has not did there job and needs to go NOW.

The IAM"s Record speaks for its self LOW PAY OUTSOURCING COMPANY UNION.

 

[paul1]

any word yet from the nmb? the response was due yesterday.

 

[TRAVIS]

any word yet from the nmb? the response was due yesterday.

Within the next 1 to 2 weeks is what i hear.

 

[swamt]

How is the IBT the best choice when your HP CBA had all heavy checks outsourced, except a few c-checks?

Look at the IBT's track record, largest percentage of outsourced worked, CO/UA and UPS.

And how come half the M&R in SFO were forced to be members in LAX, taking away their rights to basically participate?

Let's not forget the unlimited overseas outsourcing the teamsters allowed at SWA, as well as they were the union for more than 25 years that allowed SWA to be one of the highest passenger airlines that outsource.

 

[700UW]

And the IBT wasnt capable of getting the work back in-house now were they Travis?

You had UPS package delivery driver negotiating your contract.

At least the IAM at US was able to get work back in-house.

Those are the facts.

And dont forget the only reason HP brought some stuff back in-house was the FAA made them or they were going to be shutdown.

 

[TRAVIS]

(And the IBT wasnt capable of getting the work back in-house now were they Travis?)

YES THE IBT GOT WORK BACK IN HOUSE THAT HAD BEEN OUTSOURCED BEFORE THE IBT WAS VOTED IN AT AWA DUE TO THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE. (IF WORK THAT HAD BEEN OUTSOURCED OR WORK PREFORMED ONCE IN HOUSE THAT WORK STAYED IN HOUSE AND COULD NOT BE OUTSOURCED AGAIN).

(You had UPS package delivery driver negotiating your contract.)

YES HE DID AND AS YOU CAN SEE THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE HELPED AND PROTECTED JOBS IN PHX NOW HOW IS THAT IAM CONTRACT DOING FOR THE PIT MOC BOYS AND OTHERS.

(At least the IAM at US was able to get work back in-house.)

BECAUSE OF THE MERGER WITH AWA YOU GOT MORE AIRCRAFT THAT'S A NO BRAINIER NOT THE IAM DOING.
LOOK AT ALL THE IAM MX STATIONS CLOSED OR HAVE LOST AMT'S ALL OVER THE SYSTEM EAST AND WEST AND AM SURE THE PIT BOYS FEEL GOOD ABOUT NOT LOSING THERE JOB BUT BEING TOLD YOU ARE BEING DISPLACED.

IF THE IBT CONTRACT HAD BEEN VOTED IN. ALL C CHECKS WOULD HAVE TO HAD TO COME BACK IN HOUSE AND THE AMT'S ON LAYOFF AT USAIR WOULD OF HAD A CHANCE TO GET BACK TO WORK DUE TO THAT UPS PACKAGE DELIVERY DRIVERS CONTRACT LANGUAGE.!

(Those are the facts.)
THOSE ARE THE FACTS

(And dont forget the only reason HP brought some stuff back in-house was the FAA made them or they were going to be shutdown.)

AND DON'T FORGET THE IBT CONTRACT LANGUAGE KEPT IT IN HOUSE. TRUE FACT!!!!!!!

 

[TRAVIS]

Let's not forget the unlimited overseas outsourcing the teamsters allowed at SWA, as well as they were the union for more than 25 years that allowed SWA to be one of the highest passenger airlines that outsource.

I MAY BE WRONG, BUT SOUTHWEST WAS IAM AND THEY WERE VOTED OUT. THEN IBT AND THEY WERE VOTED OUT. NOW AMFA FOR THE LAST 8 OR MORE YEARS AND 2 CONTRACTS. SO WHAT HAS AMFA DONE TO BRING BACK OUTSOURCED WORK THAT THE AMT'S AT SOUTHWEST VOTED ON TO ALLOW FOR PAY AND BENEFITS

AT LEAST AWA AND US AIR AMT'S LOST C CHECKS AND OTHER WORK TO BE OUTSOURCED DUE TO BANKRUPTCY'S UNLIKE THE SOUTHWEST AMT'S VOTED ON OUTSOURCING.
THE AMT'S AWA AND US AIR HAD NO CONTROL OR RECEIVED ANY PAY OR BENEFITS FROM THE BK's WE LOST.

SO FOR A SOUTHWEST AMT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT OUTSOURCING OR EVEN BRING IT UP IS OUT OF LINE.
YOU AT SOUTHWEST GAVE UP YOUR JOBS FOR MONEY YOU VOTED THEN AWAY.

 

[700UW]

You didnt do all the C-Checks in-house, the IBT wasnt able to secure more work back in-house.

Lets see if US farmed out some work all ready and HP farmed out all the work, US didnt have to bring work back in-house as the capacity hadnt changed.

So the IAM was able to secure more work, unlike the ibt.

And PIT mtc hasnt gone anywhere now has it?

And PIT Heavy is protected in the current CBA.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[TRAVIS]

What work did the IAM bring back in???????????
Math lesson 101 add AWA aircraft too US aircraft and you get a bigger fleet and per the CBA the company can only farm out a certain percentage of work so it was the MERGER not the IAM that secured more work.
PIT heavy is protected in the current CBA and can be displaced to DFW / PHX / CLT and no one will lose a job per the current CBA.
Parker and the boys can change a HUB status or close and move a station with a wave of a pen as long as they displace the the workers to stay with in the CBA.

Keep twisting the facts and you will get it right .

 

[700UW]

You dont even know what you are talking about,before the transition agreement they could have farmed out as much as they wanted, the new language the IAM negotiated made the company have to do 50% of heavy in-house, unlike your ibt cba where they farmed out most of your work, you only did some c-checks in-house and all other heavy checks were farmed out.

Do you even read your CBA?

Base work will be performed in both CLT and PIT. The Company
29 will continue to utilize the PHX hangar facility for aircraft maintenance.

(J) Company base maintenance employees will perform fifty
17 (50%) percent or greater of all aircraft base maintenance work,
18 inclusive of narrow and wide-body aircraft, as follows: On an
19 annualized basis, for every billable hour of work from aircraft base
20 maintenance vendors performing Company base maintenance
21 work; modification work; scheduled drop in maintenance; and any
22 drop-in maintenance relating to fuselage damage or any other
23 damage, there will be an equal or greater number of paid hours to
24 Company base maintenance employees. This includes Company
25 Lead Mechanics, Mechanics, Inspectors, Utility and Lead Utility
26 (combined) assigned to base maintenance

The Company will not furlough to the street any Base
18 Mechanic who is active as of the effective date of this agreement
19 provided such employee exercises their seniority to the fullest
20 extent. (Subject to force majeure provisions as described in Article
21 5.F and 20.D.2)
22 The Company shall maintain a minimum headcount of six
23 hundred seventy-five (675) active Base Maintenance Lead
24 Mechanics, Mechanics, Inspectors, Lead Utility and Utility
25 employees combined. (Subject to force majeure provisions as
26 described in Article 5.F and 20.D.2.)

Explain how a merger gains more work, when it was the IAM who negotiated the change in the CBA to perform the work, when it could have been outsourced and not brought in due to the Chapter 11 CBA.

Actually they cant, more from the CBA:

Line maintenance stations will include at a minimum
33 BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, PHX, LAS, LAX and at least seven
34 (7) other stations as determined by the Company.

As you see BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, PHX, LAS and LAX are protected stations.

Do you even read the CBA you work under?

So you make this way too easy, now call Andy and see what he tells you to post next.

 

[swamt]

I MAY BE WRONG, BUT SOUTHWEST WAS IAM AND THEY WERE VOTED OUT. THEN IBT AND THEY WERE VOTED OUT. NOW AMFA FOR THE LAST 8 OR MORE YEARS AND 2 CONTRACTS. SO WHAT HAS AMFA DONE TO BRING BACK OUTSOURCED WORK THAT THE AMT'S AT SOUTHWEST VOTED ON TO ALLOW FOR PAY AND BENEFITS

AT LEAST AWA AND US AIR AMT'S LOST C CHECKS AND OTHER WORK TO BE OUTSOURCED DUE TO BANKRUPTCY'S UNLIKE THE SOUTHWEST AMT'S VOTED ON OUTSOURCING.
THE AMT'S AWA AND US AIR HAD NO CONTROL OR RECEIVED ANY PAY OR BENEFITS FROM THE BK's WE LOST.

SO FOR A SOUTHWEST AMT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT OUTSOURCING OR EVEN BRING IT UP IS OUT OF LINE.
YOU AT SOUTHWEST GAVE UP YOUR JOBS FOR MONEY YOU VOTED THEN AWAY.

Travis you are correct. The IAM was the first representational organization at SWA, but was short lived for a couple of years. Then the IBT came in for, I think 25-28 years. Then AMFA came in after record 2 week card drive to fire the teamsters.
We and AMFA has not givin up any jobs what-so-ever for pay. Not one. SWA has always ran lean and always will. The 4 lines of maint done in El Salvador were 4 lines that SWA took away from a failing US vendor, not an added 4 lines, just a relocation of 4 lines. To answer your other question, YES, AMFA has brought in a lot of outsourced work, and have done so very well in the little time they have been here. They are responsible for 2 added heavy lines brought into house. This would include #3 and #4 (start date is July 1, 2013). Also responsible for numerous mod lines, a "C" check back to Dallas, and some more "C" check lines that will be started in the near future due to the AT purchase. There are also several back shops that have had a lot of work not only added but brought back in from outsourcing. Out of all three unions, AMFA has either brought in new maint or brought back maint from outsourced the absolute most of all three. Can't really use the IAM as an example as they were here only a couple of short years. However, the teamsters were here for almost 30 years, and they are the true group that gave away the farm. AMFA is till plugging and repairing grey areas of what the teamsters have left behind. On a side note; AMFA has just recently added an assistant to our outsourcing officer to help will the policing of what is being outsourced by SWA. Hope this answers your questions.

 

[swamt]

There are 3 airlines that are claiming that AMFA has done all the outsourcing, and they are all wrong. Here at SWA for almost 30 years it was the teamsters, not AMFA. Over at United it was the IAM that agreed to outsourcing and closures, not AMFA or the teamsters. And of course over at AA you have the TWU giving away the farm and for well over 3 decades agreeing with the company for concessions, rifs, maint closures, and bennie reductions. The reason I mention AA now is if/when AMFA replaces the TWU, everyone (mainly TWU'ers, teamsters, and IAM members) will blame AMFA for the TWU FAILURES at AA. AMFA really is the best union for the mechanics class and craft period...

 

[737823]

And the IBT wasnt capable of getting the work back in-house now were they Travis?

You had UPS package delivery driver negotiating your contract.

At least the IAM at US was able to get work back in-house.

Those are the facts.

And dont forget the only reason HP brought some stuff back in-house was the FAA made them or they were going to be shutdown.

Elitist? Now you're showing your true colors. Allow me to recall this post from a few weeks back when you proclaimed:

I have represented mechanics, I have negotiated for mechanics.

One's classification has nothing to do with their education, knowledge or skill level.

I have helped and presented arbitration cases for mechanics.

It's funny when someone doesnt like the topic and facts, they resort to personal attacks and insults.

Are you that obtuse?

Seems you don't like having UPS drivers negotiate on behalf of IBT members do you? But it's ok for a stock clerk and IAM loyalist to negotiate on behalf of AMTs? Fact is you participated in highly concessionary negotiations that set the profession and your employee work group back even further. You don't work for UPS, or USAir for that matter, you aren't a member of the IBT, the IBT membership is okay with the organizational structure and negotiating committee seems you are upset they didn't consult the almighty stock clerk's opinion.

Oh and UPS mechanics make more than USAir mechanics. Before you counter that with UPS being a cargo carrier, Bob and other union officials compare UPS CBAs and Fedex wages/benefits regularly so clearly they ARE comparable for labor purposes.

You make this way too easy. Educate yourself. Seems YOU don't like the facts and are the one resorting to attacks.

Josh