Let''s Talk Facts About Bankruptcy

[Cosmo]

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On 4/7/2003 701 PM RV4 wrote:

Your list of "facts" proves nothing about "we will end up worse".
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One of my facts from a previous post was that a company loses control over its future in a bankruptcy proceeding. So please explain how others (whose best interests may not coincide with those of your company''s) having your future in their control will not lead to worse prospects for you than making any needed changes outside of the bankruptcy process.

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On 4/7/2003 701 PM RV4 wrote:

In addition, please provide how you determine the following statements not to be factual?

If the company goes under the creditors are screwed!

If the employees get screwed the company goes under!
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While the two above statements might be factual in certain circumstances, it depends on the specific situation. In your first statement, some of the creditors might indeed be screwed if a company liquidates, but some might not (particularly secured creditors). In addition, some creditors might conclude that they would be "less screwed" by a liquidation than by allowing a company''s operations to continue. And in your second statement, that is demonstrably not true in all cases. Just in the airline industry, by any reasonable definition of the word "screwed", the employees of bankrupt Continental (in 1983) and US Airways (this year) fit into that category yet these two companies are still operating.

 

[RV4]

THE FACTS ARE IN!

Machinists at United Airlines Reach 5 Tentative Agreements

Washington D.C., April 8, 2003 – With the clock ticking closer to deadlines that could spell the end of venerable 50-year old labor contracts, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) reached five tentative agreements today with United Airlines to provide the bankrupt carrier with $2.6 billion in savings over a 6-year period.

“In the history of this industry, there is no precedent for the climate in which these agreements were negotiated,†said Randy Canale, District 141 President and lead negotiator, representing Ramp & Stores, Public Contact Employees, Security Guards and Food Service employees. “Nothing but the prospect of a liquidated United Airlines and the permanent loss of more than 70,000 jobs can justify such sacrifices by employees.â€

Details of today’s recovery accords include a 13 percent reduction in hourly wage rates, a 20 percent employee co-payment toward the cost of the traditional health insurance plan and work rule changes to allow greater use of part-time employees. Total cost savings from pay, benefit and work rule changes for nearly 23,000 employees are expected to reach $445 million annually.

IAM negotiators achieved the recovery targets while preserving existing pensions, vacations and recall rights for furloughed employees. Negotiators also established a profit sharing plan and enhanced benefits for any employee whose job classification is eliminated.

Full details will be presented to IAM members at informational meetings prior to ratification voting, a process expected to take three weeks. If approved, the agreements will deflect a pending bankruptcy court motion to abrogate any unmodified labor contract at United Airlines.

“We were determined to prevent the worst effects of bankruptcy from being unilaterally imposed on our members,†said Canale. “A consensual recovery plan is the best way to rebuild United while preventing a court ordered ‘cure’ from bringing far more painful terms for IAM members and their families.â€

A similar but separate agreement was also reached today on behalf of nearly 500 IAM members at Mileage Plus, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of United Airlines. Voting on all agreements will be completed by April 29, following local informational meetings.

Separate talks between United and IAM District 141-M, representing Mechanic & Related and Fleet Technical Instructors at the airline are continuing.

Additional information regarding the tentative agreement will be posted on the District 141 website at www.iam141.org.

 

[RV4]

I can read you FOOL! Their CBA hasn''t been torn up as you like to say.

 

[AAviator]

RV4, so what are their odd of success? They''re now competitive with the rest of the industry, right? 20 million a day in losses gone. Right?

 

[FA Mikey]

The facts are in that ramp at UAL will take the same hourly cut as the AAers, (13%) but they jacked up the medical Co-pay to get more and we only have a highlight of what is being given. More part-time, as well, as cuts to all those little work rules like penalty hours and meal allowance''s. similar to what our guys are getting. UAL is getting from IAM a 445 million dollars savings Vs our rampers taking a 385 million hit.

The mechanics haven''t settled yet dave. Read the article carefully.

 

[AAviator]

5 millon$/day losses X 365 days = 1.825 billion
Ring a bell?

I''ll call that a fighting chance, vs. BK

 

[RV4]

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On 4/9/2003 1005 AM AAviator wrote:


RV4, so what are their odd of success? They''re now competitive with the rest of the industry, right? 20 million a day in losses gone. Right?
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Apply your same arguements to the sellout POS Concessions the TWU is peddling.

 

[AAviator]

I''ll take those odds vs. my odds in BK any day.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 4/9/2003 9:55:11 AM RV4 wrote:


I can read you FOOL! Their CBA hasn''t been torn up as you like to say.

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It might not be torn up entirely, but it certainly had a chainsaw taken to it...