LAX Maintenance Town Hall 2/24/15

[Overspeed]

What makes you think they want to do the right thing? They want to rush us into a long term deal that will bring our base rates slightly above Deltas rates non-inclusive of Profit Sharing. Then for the next four years they will take back the small annual increases by increasing what you pay for medical while Delta and United pass us by and get closer to UPS and SWA. 
 
PEOPLE YOU ARE WORKING FOR A VERY PROFITABLE COMPANY FOR HALF COMPENSATION!!!!!!!!!!


 
I agree the prefunding excuse was a lie. The company claimed in that Town Hall that our matching fund refund was based upon them getting out of having to pay the retirees. Thats absurd because the value of that is around $10 million per month, or $120 million per year. Plus the liability  for us, around another $500 million. The liability for the retiree medical, with us terminated would probably come out to around $1.2 billion by the time everyone who was entitled to it died off or used their $50,000. The costs for the plan were likely to soar over the next decade as huge numbers of us reached retirement age. If we were given credit for that then that concession alone would have covered our entire ask of $300 million a year with enough left over to let us keep our Pension. 
 
The company had to know that since the retirees paid for those benefits that they would not get to simply terminate them without it going through the 1113 process and those people becoming creditors, but they tried to squeeze them out of becoming creditors by attempting to take those paid for benefits away through the 1114 process.  
 
The company also knew that in order to get the concessions through that they won with us the Union was telling their members that they would be getting the matching funds and said nothing, in other words agreeing to what the Union was saying.  So now the company is claiming that the 1114 process is holding it up, but thats a lie, the 1114 process has been decided and as far as the retirees and the court are concerned its done. So 1114 has been successfully completed. Maybe not the way the company wanted it, but the company did not specify in the language that the only way we would get the matching funds is if they got to screw the retirees out of their money. So its only in the minds of AA management that the 1114 process is not complete and they are holding the money from us and depleting as much as they can in the meantime. Nothing is legally preventing AA from releasing those funds, its their choice and they choose to not release them. There is no requiremnet to keep the fund, except for the few guys under 65 who have a balance of contributions, but all the matching funds from those who have retired have already been released to AA, the only funds that remain are from those who have coverage and are under 65 and our matching funds. 
 
The fact is the Union could not negotiate away the Retiree medical from the retirees as it was a vested contract the day they retired and left the Union. All those people paid for the insurance they were promised, if AA wanted out of that contractual obligation they should have sought to do so during the 1113 process and made them creditors. 
 
Remember its not the retirees getting your money, its AA taking your money to pay their obligations. Obligations that they tried to get out of in an underhanded way and the courts denied. The retirees deserve their benifits, they paid for them, and we deserve our match back as well, as it is we are still getting screwed because for most of us the Total return of contributions and match comes nowhere near the value of what we lost. We each lost at least $50,000 worth of medical coverage and we were not even given the right amount of credit as far as the ask. (Tahnks to Videtich and Mark Richards and the YES voters once again). 
 
The fact is they lied by omission at the Town Hall in LAX on pretty much every response. 
 
Many don't realize why they have these town Halls. Sure they get hit with the pay issues, they expect that and have their BS answers all ready for that, what they are really looking for is to see if we are still engaged, if we are, then they know they don't have to give us squat nor do they have to take the Union seriously. The proper response at these meetings is to completely ignore and avoid operational issues such as training, equipment, even future plans, etc. They have scores of management people there for that and plenty of other ways to get that info such as delay and cancellation reports. Don't make them think that despite your complaints about pay you still really consider yourself so well paid that you are willing to do their job as well as your own. Let them know that the only thing that concerns you is compensation. Thats Wages, benifits and work rules. Once they get you to talk about operational issues, their issues, instead of compensation, our issue, they know that they have succeeded in what they came there for. When you talk about operational issues while our issues get brushed aside with BS they have won. They are laughing at you.

Sounds like you are ready for the arbitration on retiree medical. So why postpone? Get us our money Bob!

 

[Bob Owens]

Sounds like you are ready for the arbitration on retiree medical. So why postpone? Get us our money Bob!

Its not my decision to make. If it was I would go forward as soon as possible. I would have never agreed to the language they are trying to use to keep thye money, but you did. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Yep. Workrule improvments as well, only to quietly take the latter away after the elections failed...


Going off of memory, it works out to ~ 4% annually for TOS employees. Those not topped out usually get a smaller increase.
 

 
So more than likely while our AA flight attendants see what? 2% per year for the next four years DELTA FAs will likely see around 4% per year plus profit sharing, plus whatever they offer to keep the IAM away. By the end of their contract our FAs will likely be further behind the rest of the industry than they were coming out of bankruptcy. 

 

[1AA]

So more than likely while our AA flight attendants see what? 2% per year for the next four years DELTA FAs will likely see around 4% per year plus profit sharing, plus whatever they offer to keep the IAM away. By the end of their contract our FAs will likely be further behind the rest of the industry than they were coming out of bankruptcy.

Look on the bright side for the AA flight attendants, they no longer have the twu negotiating for them.

 

[topDawg]

 
So our APFA Flight attendants went from "industry leading" to lagging Delta by around 5%, and they have five years left before the amendable date. Didnt the Delta FAs recently file for representation? How does Delta usually respond to a representation election, dont they usually give pay raises to keep the Union out?
 
On average over the last few years how much have you guys seen in annual wage increases?  
 
So if agreed to Delta, plus 7% plus 4% on DOS and 2% thereafter like the Flight Attendants we would still be earning around 4% less than Delta not even counting Vacation, sick time, medical benefits, Holidays etc. 

and work rule changes. 
(just gave the ready reserve people PPT time. Added back to the health care program too with a new HRA plan) 
 

No they do have engine overhaul, they have extremely limited airframe overhaul. A DL mechanic has already stated that on this blog. A good size portion of the number works engines and components. I have no idea if the above number includes all AMTs systemwide or just those under their repair station certificate.

That is just for the ATG 145 repair station. (so its the hangar and shops only. Doesn't count the line even in ATL) 
 
As you can see, here is the repair station for MS2/MS3. 

So in other words, since according to you they don't do OH, they have hundreds more line mechanics than AA. 

see above. 
I am not sure how many you have on the line but for Delta its going to be 
~6,000 at ATG. (inculdes AMTs, MUEs, ASMs, inspectors and repairmen(so welders and such) Doesn't include management/engineering or support staff like stores 
~1,000 at MS2/MS3. Same as above. (that repair station site is a little out of date. They just hired a ton of people for the 330 service center and adding 717 c-checks) 
So once you take out the maintenance bases we are looking at around 2,000-3,000 on the line. (again including AMTs, MUEs, ASMs)
 
 
note we have a list of all this crap, but I don't see a total number listed per dept. Just the list of who is in the dept. I am not going to count all that out so i just gave some rough numbers.  

 

[swamt]

Look on the bright side for the AA flight attendants, they no longer have the twu negotiating for them.

Amen to that!!!  They were smart going with a craft union to represent their group.  When will the mechanics wake up?...

 

[Overspeed]

Its not my decision to make. If it was I would go forward as soon as possible. I would have never agreed to the language they are trying to use to keep thye money, but you did.

Again, didn't know my one vote controlled so much

 

[Rogallo]

Amen to that!!!  They were smart going with a craft union to represent their group.  When will the mechanics wake up?...

 
Doesn't the TWU represent F/A's at SWA? You saying your F/A's aren't very smart?  B)

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Again, didn't know my one vote controlled so much

Actually your yes vote and 47 others passed the TA.  You supported it and you tried to sell it now you own it.

 

[Overspeed]

I'll own my one vote. And the other thousands of yes voters own theirs.
 
I also supported the 2010 TA that would already had us at $38 hourly five years ago along with three holidays back and full pay SK pay. So you own voting down and denying me that so I guess we are even. You showed me by preventing the two of us form making tens of thousands more annually. You are a tough savvy customer buddy.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I'll own my one vote. And the other thousands of yes voters own theirs.
 
I also supported the 2010 TA that would already had us at $38 hourly five years ago along with three holidays back and full pay SK pay. So you own voting down and denying me that so I guess we are even. You showed me by preventing the two of us form making tens of thousands more annually. You are a tough savvy customer buddy.

On the contrary.  I voted no on myself getting a $3000 lump sum payment in lieu of a raise.  Apparently I am not as easily bought as you so that makes me a little more savvy than you it seems.

 

[Overspeed]

OldGuy@AA,
I would argue that it is more like you were short sighted. I had been hearing and reading that aircraft like the 787 and new aircraft deliveries would be brought in under the phased heavy maintenance approach. The new management favors that approach as you can see on the US side of the house. LC type work is going to be done in the line, not the base. Base people could end up on the line doing work they used to do in places like TUL. I could argue that you voted against your future position out on the line working for TUL wages in places like JFK, ORD, LAX, and DFW.
 
Yep, you're pretty savvy

 

[swamt]

 
Doesn't the TWU represent F/A's at SWA? You saying your F/A's aren't very smart?  B)

YUP!!!

 

[Overspeed]

But SWA flight attendants are top pay in the industry....

 

[1AA]

But SWA flight attendants are top pay in the industry....

That is because they do not want a repeat of what happened at AA in 1977.