LAX Maintenance Town Hall 2/24/15

[swamt]

But SWA flight attendants are top pay in the industry....

You just proved my point on how most all of you out here only focus on the pay.  If you look at unions, and place them by who is the highest paid, then that's just stupid.  You have to look at the entire package on how the union represents and stands up for their members not who is the highest pay.  Now since you brought it up, why are you still TWU?  With your theory, your the lowest paid ( I think, it could be the IAM @ US) you guys should have fired the TWU many, many years ago.   That's called using your own theory back at you, good luck explaining this one...

 

[swamt]

That is because they do not want a repeat of what happened at AA in 1977.

Way before my time, what happened in 1977 @ AA?

 

[FWAAA]

Way before my time, what happened in 1977 @ AA?

That's when the AA flight attendants formed their own union, the APFA, and tossed the TWU off the property.

The reason that WN flight attendants are the highest paid is simply that Southwest has never been thru Ch 11 and has never whacked pay like everyone else. Additionally, WN was still quite small in September, 2001, and was in a position to grow dramatically in the following decade, and was thus able to add many new-hire FAs during that growth so that the top scale wasn't all that relevant. The legacies, on the other hand, did nothing but shrink as WN grew (and non-union B6 and VX were formed and grew at the legacies' expense). When you shrink, you go a decade without hiring new FAs, and more and more are at top of scale.

Now that WN's growth rate has slowed, more and more employees are at or near top of scale, and WN is looking a lot more like a legacy airline. Expect more buyouts in future years to remove the highly paid FAs, fleet service and agents, which will preserve plenty of $$$ for pilots. There aren't enough young mechanics in the pipeline to even consider buyouts of old mechanics. The secret there is to keep the workforce small and highly paid, and continue plenty of outsourcing.

 

[Overspeed]

You just proved my point on how most all of you out here only focus on the pay.  If you look at unions, and place them by who is the highest paid, then that's just stupid.  You have to look at the entire package on how the union represents and stands up for their members not who is the highest pay.  Now since you brought it up, why are you still TWU?  With your theory, your the lowest paid ( I think, it could be the IAM @ US) you guys should have fired the TWU many, many years ago.   That's called using your own theory back at you, good luck explaining this one...

I am TWU because they kept my pension going longer than anyone else, didn't lead me in to a battle they couldn't win like at NWA, delivered much better than AMFA did at UAL, and isn't still sitting on their hands years later on their first real adversarial negotiations at SWA.

Lowest paid? Do you not include all the people AMFA led to the unemployment line over the years? Even though we have lost jobs here at AA. It's nowhere near the job carnage that AMFA has left in their wake.

 

[swamt]

That's when the AA flight attendants formed their own union, the APFA, and tossed the TWU off the property.

Ok thx.  That's what I figured. This is what the F/A's should be doing at SWA.  Just for the mere fact that the TWU is STILL acting childish about the Labor Collation at SWA.  They (TWU) are STILL refusing to attend the Labor Summit meetings since AMFA has been brought in by the Pilots group. They are hurting the membership by their grudge holding childish games they continue to play.  If I am not mistaken, I do believe the teamsters have looked thru all the childish games and are attending the Summit meetings, but I do not know this as fact.  Even AMFA put out an invitation to the TWU to over look past grudges and they are welcome to attend, and the TWU STILL refuses to attend, so sad, so very sad.  By being a part of these Summit meetings has greatly increased communications and knowledge between all the unions groups on property at SWA. By the TWU refusing to attend is just harming the entire membership of the F/A's and other groups...

 

[Overspeed]

That is because they do not want a repeat of what happened at AA in 1977.

AA mechanics had their own craft union before called ALMA. Didn't work so they joined the TWU in the late 1940s?

 

[Overspeed]

That's when the AA flight attendants formed their own union, the APFA, and tossed the TWU off the property.The reason that WN flight attendants are the highest paid is simply that Southwest has never been thru Ch 11 and has never whacked pay like everyone else. Additionally, WN was still quite small in September, 2001, and was in a position to grow dramatically in the following decade, and was thus able to add many new-hire FAs during that growth so that the top scale wasn't all that relevant. The legacies, on the other hand, did nothing but shrink as WN grew (and non-union B6 and VX were formed and grew at the legacies' expense). When you shrink, you go a decade without hiring new FAs, and more and more are at top of scale.Now that WN's growth rate has slowed, more and more employees are at or near top of scale, and WN is looking a lot more like a legacy airline. Expect more buyouts in future years to remove the highly paid FAs, fleet service and agents, which will preserve plenty of $$$ for pilots. There aren't enough young mechanics in the pipeline to even consider buyouts of old mechanics. The secret there is to keep the workforce small and highly paid, and continue plenty of outsourcing.

So are you advocating for plenty of outsourcing?

 

[FWAAA]

So are you advocating for plenty of outsourcing?

Damn straight. Higher pay for some with more outsourced overhaul is a helluva lot more desirable than low pay for all and less outsourcing. But that view is inconsistent with maximizing dues revenue, so the industrial unionists would not agree with me.

 

[Overspeed]

The only way I can see that happening and reduce the pain is to offer a buyout to those in TUL and AFW that will lose their jobs.

It is a known fact that unless the FAA holds foreign repair stations to the same standards as domestic ones, it is extremely difficult to compete on cost for airframe overhaul. I wonder if the mechanics at Aeroman are up on IAW?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

OldGuy@AA,
I would argue that it is more like you were short sighted. I had been hearing and reading that aircraft like the 787 and new aircraft deliveries would be brought in under the phased heavy maintenance approach. The new management favors that approach as you can see on the US side of the house. LC type work is going to be done in the line, not the base. Base people could end up on the line doing work they used to do in places like TUL. I could argue that you voted against your future position out on the line working for TUL wages in places like JFK, ORD, LAX, and DFW.
 
Yep, you're pretty savvy

You bring up a good point. ( Even though it was the $3000 lump sum that made a no easy,) it is fact that at 30 years with AA I would have to go to JFK, ORD, LAX while AMTs junior to me would get to stay in DFW.  That is wrong and I am willing to bet the TWU never fixes it.  AA likes this so the TWU won't even ask.  Wanna bet me?  In the mean time we'll see how well doing light C's at line stations works out for AA.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

 what they are really looking for is to see if we are still engaged, if we are, then they know they don't have to give us squat nor do they have to take the Union seriously. The proper response at these meetings is to completely ignore and avoid operational issues such as training, equipment, even future plans, etc. They have scores of management people there for that and plenty of other ways to get that info such as delay and cancellation reports. Don't make them think that despite your complaints about pay you still really consider yourself so well paid that you are willing to do their job as well as your own. Let them know that the only thing that concerns you is compensation. Thats Wages, benifits and work rules. Once they get you to talk about operational issues, their issues, instead of compensation, our issue, they know that they have succeeded in what they came there for. When you talk about operational issues while our issues get brushed aside with BS they have won. They are laughing at you.
 
 
Well said
 
As for the increase in Medical to eat away at the raise we get
 
LETS CAP THE MEDICAL
 
Every thing they give us is wiped out with the increase in Medical

 

[OldGuy@AA]

u
 
Well said
 
As for the increase in Medical to eat away at the raise we get
 
LETS CAP THE MEDICAL
 
Every thing they give us is wiped out with the increase in Medical
 

Fat chance.  AA has used that to take back every raise they have given us.  The TWU doesn't care because it doesn't affect our base pay therefore doesn't affect dues.  We have tried to push for a cap for years but nobody in the TWU international will listen.

 

[Overspeed]

Just watched the ORD town hall. I thought it was a hot bed of labor unrest. The one AMT who spoke at the end about labor/management issues asked Isom but didn't seem angry at all. Watch it yourself.
 
Isom blamed the JCBA not happening and no raises on the hold up with deciding representation.

 

[1AA]

Well if iam bowed out we would have probably negotiated a jcba. The dam unions are greedy for money at our expense. The company is feeding off this. Well done twu/iam. Keep blaming the workers for the short falls of the union's.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

Bow out
Tell the NMB to get off their arse and have an election. If you pay dues to the IAM or the TWU cast a dam vote and decide who is going to represent us. The representational union can decide about craft class and all the other BS.
 
The company could care less the longer this drags out the less money they are paying us on a monthly basis. _ the union _ the NMB and _ the company fill in the blanks
Lowest paid in the industry 1990 wages