It's Going To Be A Bumpy Ride

[galleyguy4u2]

As a furloughed TWA f/a I can tell y'all we have done the holiday sick out. I believe it was in 96 during our contract talks. Our Union did not encourage this sick out it was a grass roots movement throughout the system. We called it "Home For the Holidays." Management knew about this potential sick out and our base manager at the time was Joyce Coleman. Bill Compton asked her if they should pay a one time hoilday bonus to keep us on the property. In Joyce's words..."We do not need to pay our people extra during the holidays.

Well devastation did settle in on December 24th. I believe 50% of the f/a's called in sick Flights were cancelled it was a mess. The day after Xmas I received a phone call from Sherry Cooper telling me that TWA received a court injunction to stop this sick out. And if I continued to be off sick I would need a doctors note with FULL details of my illness or face being terminated. Fortunatly I have a great Dr. who was sympathetic to our cause.

You can rest assured that AA will get a court injunction that could place you in job jeporady if you do not adhere to the courts terms....they can legally fire you. We did have f/a's terminated who could not produce proper medical documentation.

If you want to show legal job action, just Work By Rule. Do nothing more above your duties. If you are short crew, can you really finish the service ? Enforce every regulation with no exceptions. If it get's turbulent, put the cart's away and be seated in your jumpseat. You get my drift. If you are fatiqued from lack of rest, you know what to do.

Just my two experienced cents.

 

[wrx]

Come on now XXXXXX - Kansas isn't the redneck place, Missouri is. So you'd find a doctor who'd be willing to lie on your behalf? Hope he doesn't lie on a real diagnosis.

KC,

Boy do you have it all wrong! Get you facts correct and it might do you some good. I noticed you avoided my question. You always avoid questions when people ask you. You talk the talk but you can't walk the walk.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Court injunctions against unionized groups aren't as hard to get as injunctions against NON union groups.

 

[FA Mikey]

Nice plane, just missing the flag.

 

[FA Mikey]

As a furloughed TWA f/a I can tell y'all we have done the holiday sick out. I believe it was in 96 during our contract talks. Our Union did not encourage this sick out it was a grass roots movement throughout the system. We called it "Home For the Holidays." Management knew about this potential sick out and our base manager at the time was Joyce Coleman. Bill Compton asked her if they should pay a one time hoilday bonus to keep us on the property. In Joyce's words..."We do not need to pay our people extra during the holidays.

Well devastation did settle in on December 24th. I believe 50% of the f/a's called in sick Flights were cancelled it was a mess. The day after Xmas I received a phone call from Sherry Cooper telling me that TWA received a court injunction to stop this sick out. And if I continued to be off sick I would need a doctors note with FULL details of my illness or face being terminated. Fortunatly I have a great Dr. who was sympathetic to our cause.

You can rest assured that AA will get a court injunction that could place you in job jeporady if you do not adhere to the courts terms....they can legally fire you. We did have f/a's terminated who could not produce proper medical documentation.

If you want to show legal job action, just Work By Rule. Do nothing more above your duties. If you are short crew, can you really finish the service ? Enforce every regulation with no exceptions. If it get's turbulent, put the cart's away and be seated in your jumpseat. You get my drift. If you are fatiqued from lack of rest, you know what to do.

Just my two experienced cents.

Thanks Galleyguy, very well and intelligently put. Too bad most flight attendants are not smart enough to just play it by the rule. They see a day off with pay and an ax to grind without a clue. The APA case should be an example of what not to do.

I think the great sick out being greatly over played by a loud mouth few.

 

[wrx]

Thanks Galleyguy, very well and intelligently put. Too bad most flight attendants are not smart enough to just play it by the rule. They see a day off with pay and an ax to grind without a clue. The APA case should be an example of what not to do.

I think the great sick out being greatly over played by a loud mouth few.

Mikey,

Man you have changed over the past year. Have you been drinking the company KOOL-AID?

It's OK for all of the top Executives and Management to save their pensions and other things if we file BK. It's OK for the Executives and Management to treat the AA employees like crap. It's OK for the Executives and Management to not implement our 01' contract pay raise by the due date October 1, 2001. But, it's not OK for the AA employees to take action and give it back to them? It's going to be a jolly, holly, holiday season if flights start to be canceled. Oh, I almost forgot...when was the last time AMR Executives and Management told the truth to all the employees?

 

[operaations]

[/QUOTE]Mikey,

Man you have changed over the past year. Have you been drinking the company KOOL-AID?

It's OK for all of the top Executives and Management to save their pensions and other things if we file BK. It's OK for the Executives and Management to treat the AA employees like crap. It's OK for the Executives and Management to not implement our 01' contract pay raise by the due date October 1, 2001. But, it's not OK for the AA employees to take action and give it back to them? It's going to be a jolly, holly, holiday season if flights start to be canceled. Oh, I almost forgot...when was the last time AMR Executives and Management told the truth to all the employees?

WRX<

you amaze me. FAMIKEY is speaking his mind as he is allowed to do. He probably defends you and is completley loayl to the APFA and is a proud Flight Attendant. And does not want any illegal work action to hurt his professsion. And you say he is in bed the AMR management. And drinking the company kool aide.

how fast you turn on your fellow co worker

 

[wrx]

WRX<

you amaze me. FAMIKEY is speaking his mind as he is allowed to do. He probably defends you and is completley loayl to the APFA and is a proud Flight Attendant. And does not want any illegal work action to hurt his professsion. And you say he is in bed the AMR management. And drinking the company kool aide.

how fast you turn on your fellow co worker

Uh oh a trip is in open time. You better go and call a reserve out, xxxxxxx. Remember if a trip is in open time hours prior to departure, don't wait until 2 hours prior to call a f/a out. We can watch open time from home and see that crew sched., is playing games.

I don't turn on fellow co-workers. I will fight for any f/a in meetings or anything else. I always back my co-workers 110%!

Maybe you should fly a JFK-NRT trip with me someday. Then you can see the crap we f/a's put up with these days.

 

[KCFlyer]

Come on now XXXXXX - Kansas isn't the redneck place, Missouri is. So you'd find a doctor who'd be willing to lie on your behalf? Hope he doesn't lie on a real diagnosis.

KC,

Boy do you have it all wrong! Get you facts correct and it might do you some good. I noticed you avoided my question. You always avoid questions when people ask you. You talk the talk but you can't walk the walk.

XXXXXX, you didn't ask a question. Unless you are talking about trading jobs for a month. Tell you what, I don't travel as much as I used to, but I'll do this...I'll do your job for a month, if you'll try the job I had to do on the road for one week week. My guess is, you'll be calling in sick after a couple of days. BTW you tend not to address issues either. You appear to prefer ad hominum attacks.

 

[FA Mikey]

Mikey,

Man you have changed over the past year. Have you been drinking the company KOOL-AID?

It's OK for all of the top Executives and Management to save their pensions and other things if we file BK. It's OK for the Executives and Management to treat the AA employees like crap. It's OK for the Executives and Management to not implement our 01' contract pay raise by the due date October 1, 2001. But, it's not OK for the AA employees to take action and give it back to them? It's going to be a jolly, holly, holiday season if flights start to be canceled. Oh, I almost forgot...when was the last time AMR Executives and Management told the truth to all the employees?

No, I am the same Mike as I was the day I got here. The key to success is not directly involve the customer. We must take the higher road. In the strike of 83 we did just that. In spite of thousands of stranded customers, conventional wisdom, and the over feel in the country was support for us. Why, made AA look like a big bully.

You have a shifting issue. Is destruction of the union or the company your final goal? Its because of no respect, its because of the horrible conditions, now its the fact that the execs have a protected pension. We have one also. Mine is insured by the US government. The rest or what I really intend to live on is protected as well. I know the f/a pension and SS will not be enough to live off of.

Denise created something brilliant. It was two fold first was pins and wings. AA management saw quickly how serious we were and how many people were listening to APFA. All of a sudden f/as had wings and an APFA pin. Gone were the crew members who looked like four star generals with PFA, service pins, name tags, and every other type pin imaginable. Second came the luggage tag and the phone tree. AA also saw every flight attendant than the same luggage tag on there bag. They witnessed as in a 48 hour period we could contact and have every luggage tag insert change. That was like a HUGE scream in the ear of management, to take what we were saying and our resolve seriously. It was also brilliant because most customers never new and were not at all inconvenienced.

APFA and its flight attendants must work with management to resolve all issues of concern. You can NEVER take one side or the other out of the loop. Again like after the strike. People could not believe that we would be sitting down with management. How stupid is that. How else were issues and point to be resolved. Reactionaries like yourself just cannot see the bigger picture.

 

[FA Mikey]

Maybe you should fly a JFK-NRT trip with me someday. Then you can see the crap we f/a's put up with these days.

I would love to gets my time in and offers a 3 hour inflight rest break. You won't see me complaining about that.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Rumor has it that print-outs of this thread started showing up today with FAs and agents in MIA, ORD and possibly DFW. My how the word spreads! This could actually be the real thing this time.

I'll be watching with interest.

 

[operaations]

Maybe you should fly a JFK-NRT trip with me someday. Then you can see the crap we f/a's put up with these days

]I would love to work a JFK NRT Trip with you. I have never said your job was easy. But wow a 3 hour rest break. Not bad. But then again I chose not to apply for the position of flight atendant..because it would affect my quality of life. I have a family a wife and other things that need my attention. And that is why i chose not to apply. I can not be away from home for a job. So i do not work a job that requires it.
.
I do not think you could out up with what we schedulers have to put up with. We not only have to hear it from the APFA in one ear...we have to hear it from management in the other ear. In the end Management signs my paycheck. So that is where my loyalty lies. Follow the contract break no far's or apfa negotiated rules and do my job well. That is all that is asked of me so i do it.

 

[Garfield1966]

KC Flyer:

Maybe you should take my place for 1 month and see how it really is! Don't talk your crap about revenue and shooting yourself in the head. PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR! When you work a trip from JFK-NRT (14 hours) then layover for 11 hours and then fly home NRT-JFK (13 hours), then we can talk. Getting home and resting for 10 hours and have the phone ring to do it all over again. Then let me see what you have to say about f/a's calling in sick for the holidays because we're to damn tired to work under these conditions.

So step up to the plate and come work as an AA flight attendant. I give you 2 days and you will be crying and quitting.

A little FYI, it's against the law for any company to fire you for being out sick if you have a doctor's note! If they do...LAWSUIT! PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR

OK WRX, I did some research and I am not sure what the heck you are talking about. I do not have access to last month’s schedules any more but this month does not jib with any of your rantings. Maybe you are not flying this month or did not bid NRT or who knows what but this is what I found.

First off let me say that I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week 80 hours a month. Technically we work a straight 8 hours with no official beaks. We eat, use the rest room or what ever during down time if we have it. I am not complaining or anything, just setting a base line for what I do each day.

Since you were baiting me to come work a NRT trip with you I wanted to see exactly what it was that you do. Aside from the actual job function this is what I found.

I pulled a random day on flight 167, took a name off the NS and found bid number 5013.
What I found was this. I could not find a single person on NRT with seniority over 10000 (90% seem to be under 5000 seniority) which means the people who bid this “hellacious†trip WANT to bid it. The only junior FA’s on any of the sequences I found were speakers, AVBL’s or trades. I am not sure when this short layover was (perhaps last month) but that has been changed at least for the month of October. (see sequence below)

SEQ 14595

DT EQ FLT STA DEP M STA ARR AC FLY GTR GRD ACT
SKD 20 AF 167 JFK 1130 NRT 1450 14.20
D/P SKD 14.20 P/C 0.00 TL 14.20
HALF DAY COUNT NRT 6
SKD ONDUTY 15.50 ODL 25.35
SKD 22 AF 168 NRT 1755 JFK 1710 12.15
D/P SKD 12.15 P/C 0.00 TL 12.15
SKD ONDUTY 13.45
U/S 0.00
SEQ SKD 26.35 P/C 0.00 TL 26.35 TAFB 55.10

The layover on this sequence is over 25 hours. Here is what else I found. Someone who gets selection 5013 will only work 10 days in October and accrue 79.50 hours. Assuming they do not OE or get a TM they will get their guarantee. This selection works a STT turn on the 10th, a NRT 3 day from the 11th to the 13th, a SXM turn on the 18th, NRT again from the 22h to the 24th and a LHR 2 day from the 30 to the 31st. The other 21 days of October that individual is off to do as they choose (I found one FA with a NRT bid line who is flying 150 hours this month). On paper that seems very very nice. I would love to only work 10 days a month. Again, I must emphasize that if you are working NRT, you chose to work NRT. No one held a gun to your head, you did not draw the short straw because you have to be very senior to get this bid seq.

So, you don’t like the short layovers. Fine, I went looking for a short L/O. I found London.

SEQ 14962

DT EQ FLT STA DEP M STA ARR AC FLY GTR GRD ACT
SKD 08 AE 142 JFK 0830 LHR 2015 6.45
D/P SKD 6.45 P/C 0.00 TL 6.45
HALF DAY COUNT LHR 4
SKD ONDUTY 8.15 ODL 12.05
SKD 09 AF 101 LHR 0950 JFK 1225 7.35
D/P SKD 7.35 P/C 0.00 TL 7.35
SKD ONDUTY 9.05
U/S 0.00
SEQ SKD 14.20 P/C 0.00 TL 14.20 TAFB 29.25

Pretty much the same deal as NRT. I just looked at 142 JFK-LHR. No one over 6000 seniority. They do have to work 11 days in the moth instead of 10 (see bid 5023). They seem to like the short lay over or at the very least, they prefer the short lay over instead of being away from home longer but again, no one here drew the short straw.

So, what does someone who has not been flying since DC 3’s were around get to fly? I looked for the Caribbean flights. I found 3 bid lines, 5201, 5172 and 5083. I do not feel like going through each in detail but I will try and give an over view of each.

5172.

You will work 24 days this month. You will do will do 8 3 day BDA sequences with 1 leg out 1 leg back and a 33 hour lay over. I looked at flight 1444 JFK-BDA on the 0th and the highest seniority date is close to 17000. Very little work (2 kegs) but you are away from home and stuck in BDA for 30 hours a pop.

5201

You will work 15 days days this month and 3 going into next month. There are 2 turns, and 4 four day sequences. The 4day trips have a 20 hour layover the first night, 11 hours the 2nd night and 10 hours the 3rd night. The high seniority is about 18000. Seems like a trade off. You want to be away less, you have shorter layovers until you get to the point where you can hold Europe, Asia or South America.

5083

You will work 15 days this month. You will do 15 BDA turns. The high seniority on 686 JFK-BDA 10 Oct. was about 15000.

These are just 6 bids I found. Yes there are better (maybe not than NRT or LHR) and I am sure there are worse. Everyone has different needs in their lives.

WRX, you asked if I would do a trip with you. To me it is apples and oranges. If were are talking about the hours I work each month and the hours you work each month, I’ll trade you in a heart beat. I have worked a 16 hour shift (we call them doubles) during a weather session. I did not like it but I lived. It was none stop for 16 hours. I had time for 1 meal. I don’t like working long shifts so I limit the doubles that I do. I am not a people person. I have a problem being nice to an idiot. That seems like a job requirement for a FA. Would I be able to do your job? Technically yes. I’d get fired for telling an Exec Platinum that he has unrealistic expectations. Do you want to give up your 21 days off and work 8 hours a day driving a desk? I doubt it. Could you do it? Technically yes. Would you survive a month? I doubt it.

In regards to your quote above, I get the feeling you are referring to reserves. Are they getting abused? For the last few moths my response is hell yes they are. Thing is, in comparison to your colleagues, you have low seniority and regardless of what company you work for, if you have low seniority you get the crap shifts, no good vacations ( I have close to 20 years and still can’t hold Christmas or new years). Part of the dues to the job.

 

[FWAAA]

KC Flyer:

Maybe you should take my place for 1 month and see how it really is! Don't talk your crap about revenue and shooting yourself in the head. PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR! When you work a trip from JFK-NRT (14 hours) then layover for 11 hours and then fly home NRT-JFK (13 hours), then we can talk. Getting home and resting for 10 hours and have the phone ring to do it all over again. Then let me see what you have to say about f/a's calling in sick for the holidays because we're to damn tired to work under these conditions.

So step up to the plate and come work as an AA flight attendant. I give you 2 days and you will be crying and quitting.

A little FYI, it's against the law for any company to fire you for being out sick if you have a doctor's note! If they do...LAWSUIT! PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR

An eleven hour layover at NRT on AA is a physical impossibility since the JFK flight arrives in late afternoon and then turns around to JFK about 3 hours later. No AA flights could possibly give you an 11 hour layover at NRT. All AA flights arrive in early to late afternoon and depart late afternoon to early evening. Only a rare occurence when the flight arrives 10-11 hours late could give you an 11 hour layover.

I've flown JFK-NRT 14 times since its inaugural flight on April 19, 2002, and trust me - the FAs hardly break a sweat. What an easy trip.