Get Ready

[eolesen]

Those are the rules though and that is just how it has to be. I can't concern myself with things I have no control over.

It's not just the rules -- it's the contract.

If you think there's a better way, approach your negotiating committee.

 

[AirLUVer]

Is there that major of a difference in contracts between pilots and flight attendants? Again, the pilot contract allows with "mutual" consent movement of any days off. The FA contract does not have any provisions for day off moves? I would think some basic pieces of the contract language would be similar.

 

[FWAAA]

It's not just the rules -- it's the contract.

If you think there's a better way, approach your negotiating committee.

No kidding. Seems to me that Skymess' situation is an area where their union has completely failed them. After all, it's not like the need for a day off like this is some kind of recent development. Shouldn't this have been addressed oh, like about, 40 or 50 years ago?

Blaming Garfield for his refusal to violate the union contract and play favorites is ridiculous, IMO. And it's not even Skymess blaming CS for their predicament - it is others.

 

[FWAAA]

I have to disagree. When you look at industry RASM fields in Aviation Daily, AA still continues to run well ahead of UA, so it appears that the loss of MRTC hasn't materially affected the yield mix.

You're right that AA's yield has continued to exceed UA's yield on a nominal basis. At one point a few quarters ago, AA's mainline yield was a full two cents ahead of UA's yield. But check out the recovery UA's yield has experienced in recent quarters. Much better improvement than AA in relative terms. UA's yield in the third quarter was 11.39 cents v. AA's 11.96 cents. UA is closing the gap on AA.

I strongly disagree that LRTC is the savior that Arpey thinks it is. Why? In the third quarter, UA just kicked AA's ass. Check out UA's $68 million net profit (excluding reorg items) compared to AMR's $95 million net loss (excluding special items). That's a $163 million spread between the two. That looks like an ass-kicking to me.

Good thing the Arpey brain trust added back all those coach seats! Imagine how much worse things would have been at AA with MRTC!

Too bad the yes-men working for Arpey didn't have what it took to say "Hold it, you stupid whippersnapper - MRTC may partly explain WHY AA's yield didn't plummet as far as UA's yield." But nope - old ideas - like "higher seating density is the pathway to profits, boss" won out over innovative ways to attract higher-yielding pax. Too bad. IMO, LRTC is partly to blame for AA's dismal performance in what should have been a profitable quarter.

UA showed a profit (when reorg and special items are excluded). Why couldn't AA?

Keep in mind, UA features E+ on all mainline aircraft and even on some larger regional aircraft. And some larger regional jets even feature First Class! Just more reasons why UA will continue to attract more business pax that AA should have attracted.

AA had a good thing going there, but management threw it away.

To AA's management: Keep running out in the street to pick up those nickels. It certainly worked last quarter. Keep up the good work, AA!

 

[Garfield1966]

There is a process. Just as I knew there was. If it needs to be tweaked with an LOA, so be it.
Skymess' situation is a perfect example of a legitimate need, a medical appointment that had to be made months in advance and which is not easily changed or rescheduled.

By the way, just because Skymess knew of it three months in advance does not mean that Skymess could hold an AVBL line that accommodates that need.

OK, so as I understand it anyone who has made a doctors appointment can have their days moved or their trips removed? Is that correct? Is this with or with out pay? How many times may they do this per year? I predict lots of doctors appointments on the 23rd and 24th of December along with Thanksgiving, July 4th and any other day when someone does not feel like working. Still think it's a perfectly reasonable request?

 

[local 12 proud]

people from all work groups tend to be sick more in the winter time Garfield, thats why its called the "Flu season". and yes those who are exposed to the general population more will suffer a higher incidence....jeeeez give it a break already!

 

[Skymess]

OK, so as I understand it anyone who has made a doctors appointment can have their days moved or their trips removed? Is that correct? Is this with or with out pay? How many times may they do this per year? I predict lots of doctors appointments on the 23rd and 24th of December along with Thanksgiving, July 4th and any other day when someone does not feel like working. Still think it's a perfectly reasonable request?

I was trying to get a day off, not a PVD.

I went to see my supervisor and tried to get a PO from that flex point we got last year. Apparently the rules for that are that it needs to touch a DO......cows need to fly over the moon and a zebra needs to cross the runway just as Narita is taking off....all at the same time.


Who would realistically have a Dr.'s appointment on Christmas or Christmas eve? You're a little too bitter Garfield. You need to put yourself in some FA shoes for a walk a mile. Go out and experience working in a tube with people coughing in your face and galley and people trying to hand you nasty wet tissues in your bare hand while you are picking up garbage. Let's see how you feel about calling in sick during flu season then.

 

[Garfield1966]

I was trying to get a day off, not a PVD.

I went to see my supervisor and tried to get a PO from that flex point we got last year. Apparently the rules for that are that it needs to touch a DO......cows need to fly over the moon and a zebra needs to cross the runway just as Narita is taking off....all at the same time.
Who would realistically have a Dr.'s appointment on Christmas or Christmas eve? You're a little too bitter Garfield. You need to put yourself in some FA shoes for a walk a mile. Go out and experience working in a tube with people coughing in your face and galley and people trying to hand you nasty wet tissues in your bare hand while you are picking up garbage. Let's see how you feel about calling in sick during flu season then.

Let's stick with the issues shall we. Did a walk a mile with FA's. Was not interested in the job.

If people are going to be able to get out of work for having a doctors appointment, people will get doctors appointments.

You believe what you want about the sick calls for Christmas. Statistically it’s impossible but there are people who believe that the moon landing was done in a Hollywood studio too.

 

[Skymess]

Let's stick with the issues shall we. Did a walk a mile with FA's. Was not interested in the job.

If people are going to be able to get out of work for having a doctors appointment, people will get doctors appointments.

You believe what you want about the sick calls for Christmas. Statistically it’s impossible but there are people who believe that the moon landing was done in a Hollywood studio too.

Yes. Let's stick with the facts. I wasn't trying to get out of work. I was trying to trade one day available to the company for one the next week. I was going to trade work for work. It is not a holiday. It is on a thursday at the beginning of November. Not a heavy travel period. I was trying to trade a work day during the light travel period to one later in the month which usually has heavy loads.

Why am I bothering? Whatever we say to you sounds like " blah blah blah" to your ear. You've truly been indoctrinated in the screw scheduling brainwash program.

 

[operaations]

sky mess i resent that remark. He is a little bitter bit he has reason to be. Just brush it off. I think you should be allowed the day off but itjust wont happend and not to my fauly. FWAA thanks for the post I think that is what we have been trying to say all along

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

sky mess i resent that remark. He is a little bitter bit he has reason to be. Just brush it off. I think you should be allowed the day off but itjust wont happend and not to my fauly. FWAA thanks for the post I think that is what we have been trying to say all along

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

operations;

WOW, I've got to admit, I'm a bit impressed at your degree of Pragmatism !!

Now Garfield(the movie), well that's another story.
Hope he's got his "Mylanta, Rolaids, Tums, Prilosec, all lined up, as the calander tells me that the "FLU" season(NOV/24 through Jan/02) is fast approaching !!

NH/BB's

 

[Garfield1966]

Yes. Let's stick with the facts. I wasn't trying to get out of work. I was trying to trade one day available to the company for one the next week. I was going to trade work for work. It is not a holiday. It is on a thursday at the beginning of November. Not a heavy travel period. I was trying to trade a work day during the light travel period to one later in the month which usually has heavy loads.

Why am I bothering? Whatever we say to you sounds like " blah blah blah" to your ear. You've truly been indoctrinated in the screw scheduling brainwash program.

Skymess,

I believe you are misinterpreting what I am saying. Whether or not I feel you should have the day off (I do actually) is not germane. My point was more addressed to TWAnr who seemed to imply that you had a valid reason to be allowed to have the day off. If crew skd allows you to have the day off (whether it be a trade, PVD, removal or what ever) we have to do it for all FA's in that situation. From a scheduling stand point, that is not practical. As I stated earlier, staffing is sometimes at a premium on the first few days of the month due to legalities from the previous month. We have been told that moving AVBL days off the first/last few days of the month is not recommended (some say not permitted).

My question still stands. If we are to allow exceptions, how do we do it so that all FA's are treated equally? With AVBL and reserves it seems possible since they have work days that can be moved around based on manning. I see a problem with line holders. I guess one could say if you give up a 3 day on days x-x, I have another 3day open on days y-y but what if there are no trips? And then there is always the problem of people scheduling doctors appointments just to get out of trips. Seems to me like there are to many holes to make it viable.

 

[TWAnr]

OK, so as I understand it anyone who has made a doctors appointment can have their days moved or their trips removed? Is that correct? Is this with or with out pay? How many times may they do this per year? I predict lots of doctors appointments on the 23rd and 24th of December along with Thanksgiving, July 4th and any other day when someone does not feel like working. Still think it's a perfectly reasonable request?

Garfield,

Not all doctors’ appointments are the same. It is quite clear that Skymess has an appointment with a specialist which was hard to schedule, as opposed to a routine visit with a primary care physician. Skymess is not asking for a day off without pay but simply desires to move some days off to a later time in the month. The obstinance of the Screw Scheduling department will simply result in just another employee calling off sick when this could have been avoided.

Just about every other organization with a large number of employees has personnel that can sift the frivolous from the legitimate requests of their employees. Perhaps this type of an issue can be sorted by the department which handles FMLA requests.

There is a reason that AA has the reputation for having one of the worst labor management relations in the industry. You are the poster child for this piss poor image.

I know that you are going to distort, manipulate, twist the meaning and put out of context everything that I have written in this post.

I am done with you. This is my last post on this subject.

 

[Skymess]

I wound up getting the day off for myself with some creative scheduling that prevented them from having the ability to plot me on the day I needed to have off.

Thanks for everyone's concern with the scheduling snafu. I explained to the doctor what happened and she told me I should have just rescheduled. It's always funny to hear that Dr.'s apparently have no clue that their gatekeepers don't allow any flexibility for making appointments. Dr.'s office staff are the equivalent of crew schedule.

 

[Garfield1966]

See. Problem solved and no exception was needed.

Gee TWAnr, screw schedulars huh? Guess you don't mind if I call you a "sky hag' or "sky pie" do you? Never intended to "twist" anything. Just trying to point out that we do not live or work in a utopian world and that as soon as any policy is abused, it gets terminated.

I love how people think that I or Ops have a choice in how we schedule. We schedule according to the contract. We have no say in it. We do not screw anyone over. We abide by the contract. If we don't, we get a pay claim or a grievence.