It's Going To Be A Bumpy Ride

[wrx]

What is so ironic is the F/As blaming AA for these woes. I sat in Federal court in Brooklyn listening to J. Ward and a APFA negotiator talk about the concessions they made. AA F/As had lots of choices but their negotiating team came up with this package when lots of different items in the contract could have been used for concessions. Then they voted Yes to accept these concessions. This is NOT an AA problem, it is an APFA problem!!!!!!!!!! As some AAers were fond of replying to TWAers, QUIT if you don't like it!

Actually the f/a's vote NO on concessions. The APFA violated our constitution and bylaws by extending the vote an extra day after it had been ratified!!

 

[Andre1980]

What is so ironic is the F/As blaming AA for these woes. I sat in Federal court in Brooklyn listening to J. Ward and a APFA negotiator talk about the concessions they made. AA F/As had lots of choices but their negotiating team came up with this package when lots of different items in the contract could have been used for concessions. Then they voted Yes to accept these concessions. This is NOT an AA problem, it is an APFA problem!!!!!!!!!! As some AAers were fond of replying to TWAers, QUIT if you don't like it!

I agree with your comment but I could be wrong though. I remember reading about the aspects that were involved in the concessions negotiations for all the key unions at AMR and they were different offers with different 'benefits' and 'drawbacks'. Some of the differences I heard were tighter work rules which would have resulted in being more layoffs but the pay cut would be lesser or less relaxed workrules which would have resulted in less lay offs but a deeper pay cut. So I gress the APFA wanted the first one and the F/As should really blame their leaders for this mess and not AA.

 

[FWAAA]

Gee, you must be one of those supremely naive outsiders who thinks AMR would consider having been a flight attendant to be a prerequisite for supervising/managing flight attendants. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the Flight Service Managers (1st line supervisors) I've run across at AA have never been a flight attendant or they were a flight attendant at another airline at some time in the distant past. A couple that I know came from crew scheduling (a group known for their warm, familial feelings toward flight attendants) to being supervisors of flight attendants. It's the AMR way.

You assume an awful lot, and we all know what that can do.

I have no misconceptions that experience as a flight attendant adequately prepares or qualifies one for any management position at an airline. And I couldn't possibly care less whether your FSM was ever an AA flight attendant.

Ten years ago, Crandall infuriated the FAs when he convinced the FAA to allow AA to shorten FA training from six weeks to eight days. Of course, Crandall was looking to train replacement workers, not just management employees.

So why not run various management types (not just the FSMs) thru the eight day training (assuming the authority still exists or AA could convince the FAA to allow it again) to prevent widespread cancellations over the holidays? That way, all the disgruntled FAs can call in sick (like many do each and every year) and the customers (you know, where the FARES COME FROM) can still get where they want to go. B)

 

[jimntx]

WRX. Holiday pay? That has been tried but did not work.

How can you say that? The paid holidays were being "phased in" by the company (and, yes, i know that AApfa agreed to this). At the time the concessions were granted, only 1 holiday (01JAN) had been implemented. Hardly sufficient to say that it had been tried and didn't work.

 

[wrx]

How can you say that? The paid holidays were being "phased in" by the company (and, yes, i know that AApfa agreed to this). At the time the concessions were granted, only 1 holiday (01JAN) had been implemented. Hardly sufficient to say that it had been tried and didn't work.

Jim,

We actually had 2 holidays implemented. Christmas and New Years. This year we were to get Thanksgiving. Funny thing is UAL has already filed BK and they still get 5 paid holidays and they're better paid then us. Go figure!

 

[operaations]

Jim,

We actually had 2 holidays implemented. Christmas and New Years. This year we were to get Thanksgiving. Funny thing is UAL has already filed BK and they still get 5 paid holidays and they're better paid then us. Go figure!

Sounds like you need to work for UA. Join Jane Allen and go work for UA. Is it always greener on the other side.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

That's a lot of talk. I am not calling in sick over the holidays. No one I have talk to yet is even considering it.

Rumor has it a buttload of agents are considering it. Without agents, flight crews and passengers don't get on planes, and planes don't fly. Pretty much, an agent walk out is about the only thing short of a BK shutdown that can bring an airline, or at least a hub, to a dead stop.

 

[operaations]

where you are wrong wrx...is I am not Brandon....I do not know who brandon is. And all I am trying to do is try and make a better work place for Flight Attendants and schedulers. If you would like to participate please feeel free to leave some suggestions.

 

[wrx]

DELTED Here is an idea for your so called plan. When a trip opens up early, don't wait until 2 hours prior to call a f/a. Call when it opens don't wait. When you call treat us with respect! You should tell that raspy voiced woman on graveyard, to be professional when she calls reserves. Also, read the APFA contract and know it like the back of your hand. Most of you don't know squat about it! Never challenge a f/a on their contract, because 99.9% of us know it so well, we don't even have to look at it.

 

[FA Mikey]

Jim,

We actually had 2 holidays implemented. Christmas and New Years. This year we were to get Thanksgiving. Funny thing is UAL has already filed BK and they still get 5 paid holidays and they're better paid then us. Go figure!

You may want to actually look at the pay tables, if thats not bad enough. Add in there new medical plan and see WE make more than United. Who cares about holiday pay? Its for so few. I would rather see a 2 cent increase in everyones pay over a single holiday paid.

 

[jimntx]

Maybe a more accurate statement would be 99.9% of flight attendants have never opened there contract books. They dont know squat about rules or legalities. All they know is by word of mouth and that's very inaccurate from the terrible things I have had to dispel.

No truer words were spoken. I read the domestic section of the contract from beginning to end during the first month of probation. In my vast experience of 2 years and 10 months prior to furlough I never ceased to be amazed at flight attendants with years of seniority stating "untrue facts" about the contract or the FARs. Most would much rather go one what a friend told them in the galley about the contract that they heard from a friend whose next door neighbor used to be a flight attendant at Reno and had gotten an email once about the AA contract.

I think it was Artemus Ward, the 19th century humorist, who said,
"It's not the things we know that get us in trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so."

 

[wrx]

Mikey,

Im surprised to hear something like that from you. MIA is the most hardcore base we have followed by LAX. See most people at my base read it, know it and carry it. It's like American Express, "Don't leave home without it!" Besides, when you're a union rep like myself you don't take crap from scheduling. Some people don't have the guts to stand up for their rights. If that's how they wish to be then it's nobody's fault except theirs. As for the 2 cent increase, I would rather have AA keep it and bring back some of the f/a's on furlough.

 

[Garfield1966]

Thanks WRX. I have not laughed that hard in a long long time. 99% of FA's know the contract. Good one. I'll have to remember that one. MIA knows their contract? Not sure who they are but they sure as he11 don't call crew sked. Granted we tend to deal with, um ... the folks who sit in the back of the class room. I sure as he11 hope they are not a reflection of who is flying the line.

BTW. He really is not Brandon. I know Brandon and I am sure he would take great insult at the insinuation that OperAAtions is him.

99% know the contract … damn that’s a good one. Never thought I’d see the day where I agree with FA Mikey.

 

[FA Mikey]

Mikey,

Im surprised to hear something like that from you. MIA is the most hardcore base we have followed by LAX. See most people at my base read it, know it and carry it. It's like American Express, "Don't leave home without it!" Besides, when you're a union rep like myself you don't take crap from scheduling. Some people don't have the guts to stand up for their rights. If that's how they wish to be then it's nobody's fault except theirs. As for the 2 cent increase, I would rather have AA keep it and bring back some of the f/a's on furlough.

To make things clear I am a former scheduling rep and a current info rep. I have absolutely nothing to do with the current administration. The 2 cents comment was to make a point that the contract and money should be spread across the board. Not worked out for a small specific group. Example junior people or people with no lives who have or simply want to work holidays.

 

[FA Mikey]

Never thought I’d see the day where I agree with FA Mikey.

I am sure there are worse things in the world.