Is USAirways hostile takeover Of AA for Real?

[Barfbag]

It's all about a stronger solidified company or everyone.

Yeh, like the stronger solidified company that rose from the ashes, when AA merged with TWA, (ok acquired )

Everyone the pilots, F/As and mechs&related were so Kumbaya.

Now it's the AAnatives that will play musical chairs..

Good luck to all...

 

[wings396]

TWA failed for several reasons, with 9/11 being one of them. The other can be attributed to the failure of AA management to properly utilize what they purchased. AA has a track record of buying airlines only to dismantle them afterwards. Had they utilized their assets properly, and deployed some of the acquired airlines aircraft and flying to additional markets, things could have been different.

 

[wings396]

She doesnt work for the AFA and doesnt get paid by them.

And you know this for a fact? She has some motivating factor, and I doubt that it only has to do with her love of the membership, or her hatred of management.
Notice how her buddy Swelbar vanished after that gig was exposed.

 

[wings396]

because I know how corporations work, not a pipe dream in someone's head.

The cat hasn't gone anywhere.

yes, there are people with various allegiances all over each boards... that's the way it works here.

So you do, and which " corporation" do you run with nowadays? Any connection to the industry, PR firm perhaps? You have only one allegiance, and that's to Delta. The only reason you stick your nose everywhere is in order to protect their interests for some odd reason.

 

[Barfbag]

failure of AA management to properly utilize what they purchased.

Yes; I certainly agree like when AA Purchased the powerful LHR routes from Icahn and failed, whilst TWA was left castrated and barren.

Enjoy finding a seat after the music stops.

Best wishes to all.

 

[wings396]

Buying routes is hardly equal to buying the entire airline. The LHR routes were a terrific move for AA, but no airline that they ever bought in its entirety was. They were more focused on eliminating competition than they were building up their network with the assets they acquired.

 

[Barfbag]

Except for coveted international routes like LHR, I don't see the reasoning why any airline would want to buy parts of any airline or whole ( merger ). Theres nothing to stop an airline from flying into someone elses turf, lowering pricing on airfares and nesting until the other one screams uncle.

In a US-AA merger you are just throwing together two disfunctional management teams. Thousands will hit the streets as a result and in a few years of nonprofitabily everyones is back in bankruptcy court again.

The winners here : the Bankrutpcy lawyers, the boards of directors, the golden parachuted executives... That's it.

 

[PITbull]

Ok there Bull. The difference here is that you truly do have a hidden agenda, which is visible to most. Yous are looking out for the AFA dues income in order to protect your own. If the merger takes place, all of your perks go up in smoke. When a has been of the past becomes so vocal all of the sudden, its pretty easy to figure out what's going on. Yea, I know you are looking out for the membership, the ones that booted you out.....Right.
Funny that I don't see any of your former crowd that has much if any good to say in your favor. I spoke to a few on your group, and couldn't come up with any fans either.

Again, I must correct you..I don't work for AFA, and I never got booted out of any position I have ever held. I applied for the third departure on the VFLR...WAY in advance of my acutal departure. I don't think you know anything about my past, and I know your not part of the f/a group, and surely you haven't been speaking to the US Airways f/as that I represented or worked for. I still hear from many of them from CLT, PHL and DCA...the leadership as well.

They still write to me and ask me to review this current T/A and get my opinion, and i give it.

 

[PITbull]

And you know this for a fact? She has some motivating factor, and I doubt that it only has to do with her love of the membership, or her hatred of management.
Notice how her buddy Swelbar vanished after that gig was exposed.

My buddy swelbar????? LOL.... where do you get your information??? Have you viewed my posts for the past 10 years???? Do you see how many posts I've written?? I've been on these boards for years, and years. I have also written on the AA boards many years ago when US Airways was using its " BK trump cards" with labor and flying into BK everytime any airline may have had the slightest appearance that it may have lower labor costs.

I may not write as often as in the past, but I read anything and everything that is LABOR related. You were on here in those early years when I was posting. I think you have forgotten what my position has ALWAYS been.

And i didn't come out of the blue and start posting...I just came on the AA boards when I saw that US Airways "crazy" managment had the audacity to "leap frog" over an airline's ,management team and wave around term sheets to its labor groups and tout how much better it would be if they would throw their support over to US Airways as a merger acquirer than their OWN airline's mangment team.

I couldn't even believe that this could happen...never have seen this in any airline or any corporation ...ever. This is one for the industry "fairy tale books".

It's not even legally permissable for any outside corporation or influence to interfer with a corporation who is in their BK period, reorganizing and during its exclusivity period.

Just leave it up to the arrogance of Douggie and his team of corporate bandits to be the first.

 

[PITbull]

In a US-AA merger you are just throwing together two disfunctional management teams. Thousands will hit the streets as a result and in a few years of nonprofitabily everyones is back in bankruptcy court again.

The winners here : the Bankrutpcy lawyers, the boards of directors, the golden parachuted executives... That's it.

Exactly!

No truer summary of the situation written yet!

 

[silverbird007]

This thread is about AA and US, if Delta people want to comment on it fine make a comment and go away, no problem. Let me get this straight, DL is the greatest airline in the world, there has never been an airline as great as DL, and there will never be an airline greater then DL. Now you can go away!

 

[wings396]

Except for coveted international routes like LHR, I don't see the reasoning why any airline would want to buy parts of any airline or whole ( merger ). Theres nothing to stop an airline from flying into someone elses turf, lowering pricing on airfares and nesting until the other one screams uncle.

In a US-AA merger you are just throwing together two disfunctional management teams. Thousands will hit the streets as a result and in a few years of nonprofitabily everyones is back in bankruptcy court again.

The winners here : the Bankrutpcy lawyers, the boards of directors, the golden parachuted executives... That's it.

You are correct to an extent when you say that any given airline can add A/C, and fly new routes into a competitors turf with lower fares. Since deregulation this is exactly what has been taking place, and thus we have the overcapacity situation of today. I think that all of the airlines have learned that having way too many seats chasing too few passengers is not the way to go. Consolidation is all about turning the tide, and taking some capacity out of the market in order to stabilize fares. Why do you think that the fares of today are on level of what they were 20 years ago? I'm sure you realize that our wages as employees have helped the airlines to subsidize low fares for the very reason you posted. IF airfares had increased over the years right along with the cost of other services, I'm willing to bet that our wages within the industry would have kept pace with other industries. The tragedy of 9/11 was going to put a major hurt on all airlines without a doubt, but if fares were in line with operating costs such as fuel etc the airlines wouldn't have been showing record losses on a regular basis.
For certain AA can jump into anywhere that is considered US's turf and battle it out, but do you really think that AA can afford to do this? This business has become a game of who blinks first in any given market, and who can afford to lose the most money before bailing out. It is a proven fact that this mentality doesn't work.
Should AA & US merge this costly turf battle can be avoided,and the combined airline will have more turf with less competition in certain markets.

 

[Kev3188]

... DL is the greatest airline in the world, there has never been an airline as great as DL, and there will never be an airline greater then DL....

The Delta uber alles mindset extends far beyond what WT may or may not write on this board. It is a message constantly pounded home by the company, and many people buy into it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The Delta uber alles mindset extends far beyond what WT may or may not write on this board. It is a message constantly pounded home by the company, and many people buy into it.

While not to turn the conversation into a pop psychology rally, but is it possible that DL has succeeded in part because it has created at least a tad more of an environment of rapport than exists at other airlines? In an industry where labor and mgmt are continually at each others' necks, is it possible that part of DL's secret is that they at least say nice things about each other in public.

I'm not about to argue that DL has perfected it all - and those who are hearing that DL is the greatest airline are using their words, not mine.
But in an industry that is as dysfunctional as the airline industry is, esp. with respect to labor-mgmt relations, it doesn't take a terribly high standard to climb above the level of your competitors. Perhaps a grown up version of "I think I can, I think I can."


Silverbird,

There are, however, very real reasons why discussion of carriers other than DL are and will be considerations in AA's. future.

DL is one part - in part because they are the largest carrier that appears interested but they also represent the closest business model to AA's. B6, AS etc all have very different business models than AA.

You might also want to consider that there has always been a certain "this can't be real" mindset that many have raised regarding US' statements that it had intentions of acquiring AA. US is about half the size of AA and perhaps 1/3 the size of DL and UA.

It is more than a little fanciful to think that a company could take over a competitor twice its size let alone compete successfully against other competitors that are 2-3 times larger in winning a bid. Those are simple financial realities.

But there is another piece of this whole discussion which is probably the most relevant and that is DL’s ability to maintain labor peace and for labor and mgmt at DL to achieve mutual goals- which is almost completely opposite of what has occurred elsewhere in the US airline industry. You need only point to a 3 month long process for the pilots to come up w/ a new contract - one which was supported by 60+% of the pilots.... that is unheard of in the airline industry.

There are a number of valid considerations that AMR’s creditors and the pilots will weigh if it comes down to a non-standalone plan for AA; those who don’t want to discuss the real issues or real alternatives relegate themselves to a position of insignificance in the conversation. I can assure you the pilots and creditors are going to discuss the real issues and all of the possibilities

I can assure you the creditors and pilots are not going to agree to one alternative without looking at all the others.

If US had spent as much energy over the past 10 years pursuing small and medium sized companies as it has megacarriers 2-3 times its size, it might have assembled a fairly large airline by now.

Want a stronger position on the east coast esp. in key NE markets and to the Caribbean? B6 has been there all along. Why hasn’t US pursued B6?
Want a stronger position to the west and a platform from which it could pursue growth to Asia? AS has been there. Sure AS says they want to be independent and US might have been outbid by AA or DL – but why do you not think the same principles apply in an AA-US merger?

Why aren't there discussions about why US is needing a merger partner today?

Inclusion of DL in the discussion of AA is because DL is a real alternative that needs to be considered by anyone that wants to have some insight into where AA might actually end up.

And you also seem to forget that I have been one of the strongest proponents for an AA standalone – but perhaps you don’t like that idea either.

If you or someone else is convinced that AA-US is the only possibility for AA’s future, then may I suggest that you stay home w/ the internet disconnected and the TV off until it all plays out. The rest of the world, esp. the creditors and the pilots are going to look at every viable alternative.

These are all possibilities, including US. For now that is all any of this is.. possibilities that may or may not ever come to fruition.

But if there will be discussions about AA-US, there must also be discussions about other alternatives, of which DL is one.

Unless of course you are happy for others to have those discussions with you being left asking after the fact "how did that happen?"

but most importantly, remember that as important as the future of AA might be to your future or anyone else's, decisions regarding AA will be made on the basis of business and facts, not emotion.
Those who take this discussion personally would do well to consider that aviation is first and foremost a business.

 

[robbedagain]

I say in a matter of a few weeks we wll see what AA says as they are considering merger. I would not be shocked if they agree to merge with US. However i do know as of Sept 14 AA in BWI is outsourced the ramp I dont know what other cities are being outsourced but it sounds a lot like what US did back in 03 and 05