Industrial vs. Craft

[aapitbull]

aapitbull:
Just because you have not seen the IBT organize like this before does not make the card drive illlegimate. Any good organization will changes its tactics and not always use the same MO.

Look I am not here to change your mind, I can clearly see you want to believe and when you find people like that you rarely change their mind. I know 10 times more about what has happened to this point than you and like I said they targeted me and others to try jump start this ibt drive their motivation to come to AA was to keep AMFA out they said so right up front when I talked to them they did not come because they where looking to represent you and me they came to get in the way.

 

[AC Tynker]

Teamsters Airline Division, Transport Workers Union Air Transport Division Meet

This past week, representatives of the IBT and TWU met in Washington, do discuss areas of mutual interest. The following joint statement was released:
The Teamsters Airline Division has had a relationship with the Transport Workers Union Air Transport Division for some time now. Between our two Unions, we represent roughly 30,000 in the Aircraft Maintenance and related Class and Craft.

We have joined forces on a number of occasions including the fight on foreign outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and other issues that are of importance to our collective membership. The meeting, held in the TWU offices in Washington DC, included a vibrant discussion on MRO's both foreign and domestic and what we can do to ensure the quality of Aircraft Maintenance Safety in the future.

The meeting was hosted by TWU Workforce Development Specialist Gordon Clark. Present from the TWU were, John Conley Administrative Assistant to the International President, Chris Oriyano TWU Business Process and Research Analyst, John Donnelly Director of Strategic research, Angela Cox Strategic Research dept. and Attorney David Rosen.

Representing the IBT were, Bob Fisher International Representative Airline Division, Cassandra Ogren Strategic Research and Campaigns, Airline Division Attorney Nick Manicone and Chris Moore International Representative Airline Division.

Meetings will continue in the coming months as we continue explore synergies that will allow us to drive issues of importance to both of our mechanic and related members.

I thought everyone knew about the TWU and IBT trying to push for foreign and domestic MROs be held to the same standards we are. You can find plenty of news stories that reference that. My opinion is every AMT should be well familiar with the " Teamsters Outsourcing Defect Report ". They have a description on the online form stating that anyone in the industry can use it.

It really would have been an asset when I was working on 1D doing heavy C's on FEDEX 727 stretches and they wanted us to prototype a 727 shorty for bidding purposes so we could run those through also. As the panels and leading edges on the tail came off it was obvious it had recently been opened up and gone through before we go it because everything was clean and all the wire clamps had been masked because the end of the clamp and fastener had been primed. As we started to check cables etc we ran across some screws holding something on I forget what that didn't look right so we removed them and they turned out to be Standard Issue countersunk wood screws. The same story played out throughout the aircraft. Come to find out it had been somewhere in South America before we got it to make sure we got a clean bird for AA to give them a blanket bid.

Does the craft Union AMFA have the same type committee or anything for lobbying Congress as the Industrial Unions have created to hold foreign and domestic MROs to the same standards and rules we have to follow ? I ask only because I have no idea not for debating.

 

[Raptorman49]

Dan, think for once had the Teamsters not shown up right when they did you and your buddy in the csd shop would have been passing out AMFA cards and all those pissed off people would have signed AMFA cards not Teamsters the drive in Tulsa would now be over and the TWU would have been on their way out the door. One of these days you are going to realize just how bad you fu#ked up if the TWU stays on the property you and your friends are directly to blame

Ah I see your Logic but I have to disagree even if the Teamsters hadn't shown up I wouldn't have been passing out AMFA cards, I suspect the same is true of my buddy in the CSD shop, there are several reason's why I wouldn't pass out AMFA cards again #1 I have already heard from several people who said they wouldn't sign a card again for various reasons. #2 AMFA had it's chance in 2003 & regardless of why it didn't happen it didn't happen, the reason I passed out Teamster cards is because quite a few lazy people in my shop asked me to go get some Teamster cards for them to sign after a while I finally did it & to my surprise my whole shop except for one guy signed on the first day, I had some extra cards left over so went to the misc. Elec. shop to see if anybody there wanted to sign & once again a lot did 17 out of 22 signed so that's why I got involved in the drive, it was not my intention to be an organizer nor do I intend to be one.
so I understand your logic & in some cases that might be the case but in my case the Teamster being here wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[riceweevil]

I was involved in the amfa card drive in 2003 in Hangar 5 at TULE. You would have thought I was asking a person to kill their mother to get them to sign an amfa card. My first 2 days at work with the IBT cards flew out of my hands and were signed and given back to me. I had to get more cards to meet the demand.The support at TULE for the IBT is real whether the amfa supporters want to believe it or not.amfa needs to just keep on doing what they are doing and they will be inhailing the exhaust fumes of the IBT train.

 

[TWU informer]

I was involved in the amfa card drive in 2003 in Hangar 5 at TULE. You would have thought I was asking a person to kill their mother to get them to sign an amfa card. My first 2 days at work with the IBT cards flew out of my hands and were signed and given back to me. I had to get more cards to meet the demand.The support at TULE for the IBT is real whether the amfa supporters want to believe it or not.amfa needs to just keep on doing what they are doing and they will be inhailing the exhaust fumes of the IBT train.

Union Members will always get the representation that they deserve.

AMFA supporters could very well inhale that exhaust.

But will you have the guts to reveal your real name and take a stand so when the lies and promises are haunting us all, we can look your ass up for explanation?

I can accept a majority rule decision whatever that might be, but is more difficult to accept cowards that will advocate change, hide behind an alias, and refuse to lead once that change is made.

 

[aapitbull]

I was involved in the amfa card drive in 2003 in Hangar 5 at TULE. You would have thought I was asking a person to kill their mother to get them to sign an amfa card. My first 2 days at work with the IBT cards flew out of my hands and were signed and given back to me. I had to get more cards to meet the demand.The support at TULE for the IBT is real whether the amfa supporters want to believe it or not.amfa needs to just keep on doing what they are doing and they will be inhailing the exhaust fumes of the IBT train.

It is called timing had you been passing out cards for the IAM AMFA APA etc it would not have mattered they would have ran with it they were simply pissed and wanted to vent it happened at NWA SWA etc That is the reason IBT made the mad dash to get here when they do not organize like that and what you need to understand is the line has no use for the IBT, so if you want change that change is AMFA the AMP organizers spent 22 months pushing AMP and in the end their were 3200 previous AMFA card signers who would not sign AMP cards so we switched back to AMFA. Across the system they have the most support we do not need thousand of cards from Tulsa if the IBT had our support at the line this would be over, but they don't the line has control of our locals we are the people bringing you the vote no video's the TWU Intl does not even show up out here, Bobby Gless was boo'd of the stage at AL Blackmans 70th anniversery celebration in JFK and we have no interest in being thrown into giant Teamsters Locals where we have no control and all are B.A, {Business Agents} are appointed, that wil not fly out here so you are stuck change to AMFA or stay TWU your choice.

One more thing I ave been pushing AMFA as the Answer 15 years if it takes 5 more so be it I will not give up what little control we have now to have my life ran by the 500 pound gorilla you think is the answer and you like Dan say the reason is it was easy well things rarely come easy in life It has been my experiance that things truely valuable come only through hard work and perseverance The only thing that comes to mind that is free is Love and that comes from God but even that you must work at and nuture.

You do what you want we have a plan and we will stick to our plan in the end only time will tell what happens but if I were you I would sign a AMFA card and tell others to do the same even if you support the IBT look at it as insurance if I am right and you or wrong the TWU wins.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Thank You for input.
I have a question for you.

After what happened at Northwest Airlines, would you suggest the AMT's of the industry stay in any Industrial Union or would you suggest the we sign cards and support AMFA?

I was IAM before the AMFA. I would dump any industrial catch-all union for AMFA again. Of course just getting in AMFA is not panacea. There are so many people who would just vote in AMFA, then sit back and yell "ok AMFA, what are you doing for me"?

Apathy is the killer of any succesful venture.

 

[TWU informer]

I was IAM before the AMFA. I would dump any industrial catch-all union for AMFA again. Of course just getting in AMFA is not panacea. There are so many people who would just vote in AMFA, then sit back and yell "ok AMFA, what are you doing for me"?

Apathy is the killer of any succesful venture.

Interesting and I agree with you.

In my opinion the non-democratic industrial union creates the apathy because it takes the members out the union and they decide everything for us in secret.

I do not know if the AA Mechanics would reverse the apathy that is ever present if we were to obtain a fully democratic union that is specific to our profession. But I am willing to not only put the time into seeking that change, but also willing to drop my personal apathy and engage in the union again to help make a craft union succeed.

I am not going to waste my time with any industrial union though, and my personal apathy will only get worse unless a positive change is made.

In contrast the apathetic teamsters backers have no interest in being leaders and have no interest in having to be involved in their union, they want to hire somoeone to take of it for them and want no effort to be required.

The big question is, can we get AMFA, and can we reverse the current apathy.

Thanks again for you input.

 

[Brain]

I still don't think you understand what I'm getting at Raptorman

Maybe phrasing it this way will help.....

Back in 2007 I knew the names of all 12 of the mechanics that formed the ibt organizing committee at UAL. This was months BEFORE the PAID organizers showed up. These individuals leafletted and collected cards, ....AND THEN the ibt stepped in with the money and resources.

Now you and others here have stated you have no such committee at American, and that based only on some phone calls and a meeting you yourself described as quiet, the ibt has launched a full blown campaign.

If this is of no concern to you, that is of course your choice. That being said I just hope your fellow mechanics at AA take this into account if/when the representational question reaches its conclusion.

JMHO

 

[Brain]

Mr. Hero,
Let see if I got what you are saying? You are a United AMT. You would like someone to let you know the people responseable for the IBT at AA. What I Don't understand is what you mean "take into account" when all this at AA has concluded.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Mr. Hero,
Let see if I got what you are saying? You are a United AMT. You would like someone to let you know the people responseable for the IBT at AA. What I Don't understand is what you mean "take into account" when all this at AA has concluded.

You have been on this board for awhile now Brain, and have no doubt watched the back-and-forth over the origins of the ibt drive on AA.

For my part (my opinion) I think the ibt is on the AA property per direct request of the TWU to play spoiler. I base this opinion on the ibt campaigns at UAL & Horizon which at their foundations had a group of mechanics from the airline as the core of that organizing committee. The Committee for Change at UAL, and the Committee for a Real Future, at Horizon. I see no such committee of AA mechanics at American. Further, from some of the ibts most vocal supporters comes word that with just a few phone calls and a quiet info meeting the ibt has guaged the membership interest and launched a full campaign, yet still there is no established ibt organizing committee of AA mechanics. The UAL committee was on its own for months in the begining, and only after submitting a substantial amount of cards did the ibt step in with resources and paid organizers.

As if this wasn't suspicious enough, why hasn't the TWU tried to defend itself against the ibt? why does the TWU make statements only against AMFA yet to this point (AA mechs correct me if I'm wrong) has made no comments against the teamster raid?.

How can a group that just this year signed a "solidarity charter" with the teamsters say absolutely nothing when that group stabs them in the back by raiding them( if it really is a raid )

http://www.twu.com.a...wu---teamsters/

Additionally, how could the teamsters claim to be true unionists after Hoffa himself made this video just this past June?



I find it sadly amusing that so many at American seem willing to turn a blind eye to what is obviously a farce.

But again that is of course just my opinion.

 

[TWU informer]

WOW Thanks for that.
I got it all downloaded because I suspect it will be pulled soon.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Gentlemen, the David Bourne Video is back up on YouTube, please voice your concerns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSVTbZYCew

 

[Birdman]

Raptor, I think he meant to include his sincere thanks to the TWU for allowing his union to pick up thousands of their dues payers.

 

[Tex-Mech]

WOW Thanks for that.
I got it all downloaded because I suspect it will be pulled soon.

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