Industrial vs. Craft

[Anomaly]

Well even if this a full fledged go as you say the TWU can stop it tomorrow by simply telling people it is not that it's all part of a plan to stop AMFA, most of us believe this anyway and if they leaked a document saying so that would kill the IBT. yet they do not make that move, so like they say if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. ITS A DUCK!!

My brief experience with the Teamsters is they are a methodical group who does not hide motives. I think they are moving carefully, but do not doubt that this could turn in to an all out unsanctioned raid against the TWU. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Vortilon]

Abnormality, why don't you go back to where ever you came from? In case you haven't noticed, the AA AMTs and related on this board; for the most part, are not buying your snake oil.

 

[iluvaa]

[sup]Anomaly you never answered my question back on page 9 I think it was a legit question[/sup]

 

[DNTULSA]

Abnormality, why don't you go back to where ever you came from? In case you haven't noticed, the AA AMTs and related on this board; for the most part, are not buying your snake oil.

Anomoly can't help it; he has diarrhea fingers!

 

[Anomaly]

Anomoly can't help it; he has diarrhea fingers!

LOL, I'll give you that one. It is a buy product of my slight OCD. Weekend rum will help.

 

[TWU informer]

Your rants on craft unionism just make no sense. I have been trying to ignore them, but I have to ask, do you really understand where the craft Unions started and what their power actually was? The craft unions started as shoe makers, type setters, and metal workers who all had a skill set typically handed down but always one that took years of dedication to master. They had power because there were very few of them that could do the work and they could shut down a single industry because of their skills. Technology was their enemy, not the merger of the AFL and CIO. In fact, the AFL began to loose the single craft mindset as early as the AFL’s convention in 1935 after the "small potato" incident when the CIO former members of the AFL pushed towards broader membership. You also forget to mention during your rants that the CIO was born and made up of workers from the AFL craft unions. Read the books "Which Side Are You On" or "Labor's Untold Story" for a deeper understanding of the origin of the industrial unions.

.....snip here to save some banwidth due to a diatribe that is nothing more than utter ignorance

Craft unionism



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Craft unionism refers to organizing a union in a manner that seeks to unify workers in a particular industry along the lines of the particular craft or trade that they work in by class or skill level. It contrasts with industrial unionism, in which all workers in the same industry are organized into the same union, regardless of differences in skill.





http://en.wikipedia..../Craft_unionism


Industrial unionism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Industrial unionism is a labor union organizing method through which all workers in the same industry are organized into the same union—regardless of skill or trade—thus giving workers in one industry, or in all industries, more leverage in bargaining and in strike situations. Advocates of industrial unionism value its contributions to building unity and solidarity, suggesting the slogans, "an injury to one is an injury to all" and "the longer the picket line, the shorter the strike."




Industrial unionism contrasts with craft unionism, which organizes workers along lines of their specific trades, i.e., workers using the same kind of tools, or doing the same kind of work with approximately the same level of skill, even if this leads to multiple union locals (with different contracts, and different expiration dates) in the same workplace.

http://en.wikipedia....strial_unionism

_______________________________

And so now comes the Anamoly to rewrite the definitions of craft unionism to suit his desired outcome.
He does this only because he cannot find an answer to defend the IBT within the true defintions that are present today.
So he wants to create his own version of twist, spin, and convolusion of the facts to attempt to re-create the meaning to dilute or minimize the decision we need to make regarding the direction of change that the Mechanic and Related craft or class should turn for relief from failed industrial unionism.

Anamoly, you would be far better served to ignore my post and "rants" as you call them, than to continue to make a complete ass of yourself trying to redifine the present day definition of craft union vs industrial union.

You are dealing with grown men that are professionals seeking change, not some playground group of children that you can mind screw using history to rewrite defnitions to suit your desired outcome.

 

[Anomaly]

[sup]Anomaly you never answered my question back on page 9 I think it was a legit question[/sup]

There is not a single question on your page 9 post. I would not call an insult a question. You believe what you want. I truly do not give a F@%$

You do not know me, yet you feel confident enough to call me a liar? I have an answer for you, but so far I have not reduced to that type of language.

 

[iluvaa]

[sup]Anomaly you never answered my question back on page 9 I think it was a legit question[/sup]

WOW IGNORED again, you answer post like mad but yet again ignore my post, that speaks volumes about who you are. Did you know most people dont listen to a known liar.

 

[iluvaa]

WOW IGNORED again, you answer post like mad but yet again ignore my post, that speaks volumes about who you are. Did you know most people dont listen to a known liar.

oops I stand corrected you answered, but ME THINKS I struck a nerve HMMmmmmmmm. You see the truth hurts sometimes when you are proven a liar

 

[Anomaly]

Craft unionism



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Craft unionism refers to organizing a union in a manner that seeks to unify workers in a particular industry along the lines of the particular craft or trade that they work in by class or skill level. It contrasts with industrial unionism, in which all workers in the same industry are organized into the same union, regardless of differences in skill.





http://en.wikipedia..../Craft_unionism


Industrial unionism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Industrial unionism is a labor union organizing method through which all workers in the same industry are organized into the same union—regardless of skill or trade—thus giving workers in one industry, or in all industries, more leverage in bargaining and in strike situations. Advocates of industrial unionism value its contributions to building unity and solidarity, suggesting the slogans, "an injury to one is an injury to all" and "the longer the picket line, the shorter the strike."




Industrial unionism contrasts with craft unionism, which organizes workers along lines of their specific trades, i.e., workers using the same kind of tools, or doing the same kind of work with approximately the same level of skill, even if this leads to multiple union locals (with different contracts, and different expiration dates) in the same workplace.

http://en.wikipedia....strial_unionism

_______________________________

And so now comes the Anamoly to rewrite the definitions of craft unionism to suit his desired outcome.
He does this only because he cannot find an answer to defend the IBT within the true defintions that are present today.
So he wants to create his own version of twist, spin, and convolusion of the facts to attempt to re-create the meaning to dilute or minimize the decision we need to make regarding the direction of change that the Mechanic and Related craft or class should turn for relief from failed industrial unionism.

Anamoly, you would be far better served to ignore my post and "rants" as you call them, that to continue to make a complete ass of yourself trying to redifine the present day definition of craft union vs industrial union.

You are dealing with grown men that are professionals seeking change, not some playground group of children that you can mind screw using history to rewrite defnitions to suit your desired outcome.

Your not even reading your own CRAP! Look at the bottom of the Wiki Craft Union page you posted.

http://en.wikipedia..../Craft_unionism
Persistence

Craft unionism has receded in many industries as a result of changes in technology, the concentration of ownership and jurisdictional conflicts between craft unions. Craft unionism has not, however, disappeared: it is still the norm in the airline industry, survives despite much upheaval in the construction industry, and even appears, in very muted form, in some mass production industries, such as automobile manufacturing, where skilled trades employees have pressed their own agendas within the union.

Just above that is a more detailed explanation of the "small potatoes" incident I mentioned.

You are so intent on side stepping my posts that you rare willing to say anything to derail other readers.

 

[Anomaly]

oops I stand corrected you answered, but ME THINKS I struck a nerve HMMmmmmmmm. You see the truth hurts sometimes when you are proven a liar

There was no lie in my explanation of how I believe a Craft Union could benefit all mechanics. There was no lie in my explanation of how the IBT came on UAL property and how I believe they will soon make a move for AA. There was no lie in my explanation of the lack of representation for line mechanics who do not have access to a Local at both the IBT and at AMFA. Start thinking and standing for yourself.

I have nothing else to say to you pal. Your just following others.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

There is not a single question on your page 9 post. I would not call an insult a question. You believe what you want. I truly do not give a F@%$

You do not know me, yet you feel confident enough to call me a liar? I have an answer for you, but so far I have not reduced to that type of language.

How can we know someone who doesn't identify themselves?

"I have nothing else to say to you pal. Your just following others."

Just like you're following orders. Continue to stand behind your alias while you DON'T try to influence others. You're just stating your opinion. An opinion that states the teamsters are a better organized union than AMFA's.

 

[Anomaly]

Your not even reading your own CRAP! Look at the bottom of the Wiki Craft Union page you posted.

http://en.wikipedia..../Craft_unionism
Persistence

Craft unionism has receded in many industries as a result of changes in technology, the concentration of ownership and jurisdictional conflicts between craft unions. Craft unionism has not, however, disappeared: it is still the norm in the airline industry, survives despite much upheaval in the construction industry, and even appears, in very muted form, in some mass production industries, such as automobile manufacturing, where skilled trades employees have pressed their own agendas within the union.

Just above that is a more detailed explanation of the "small potatoes" incident I mentioned.

You are so intent on side stepping my posts that you rare willing to say anything to derail other readers.

@TWU Informer

Also on the wiki page that you posted;

http://en.wikipedia..../Craft_unionism

In 1901, the AFL issued a statement referred to as the Scranton Declaration, which asserted that unions were formed on the basis of the trade practiced by a group of skilled workers. The Scranton Declaration would be invoked – except in the case of powerful industrial unions that resisted, such as the United Mine Workers – to enforce craft autonomy as the cornerstone of the organization.[sup][7][/sup]
The principle of craft autonomy began to give way in many trades, however, with the advent of industrialization in the second quarter of the twentieth century. The most impressive example was in the textile industry, which created massive new factories staffed by unskilled workers that displaced the small scale and home workshops of weavers in New England. New industrial processes and markets also gave rise, however, to many small shops in which semiskilled and unskilled workers did a discrete portion of the work that a skilled worker might have done a decade earlier.

Sure sounds a lot like the MRO mechanics as I explained them, ya think???

I re wrote the history of nothing. You simply do not know, or maybe you are not smart enough to figure out that your brand of ideology relies on assumptions rather than a basis of fact. When countered, you cry foul, or LIAR in this case.

You need help sir. Counseling is not a bad idea.

 

[Anomaly]

How can we know someone who doesn't identify themselves?

"I have nothing else to say to you pal. Your just following others."

Just like you're following orders. Continue to stand behind your alias while you DON'T try to influence others. You're just stating your opinion. An opinion that states the teamsters are a better organized union than AMFA's.

An opinion that states the Teamsters are acting like what they are. A trade workers Union. AMFA is pretending to be a craft Union and calling on the sympathies and emotions of worthwhile and skilled mechanics by saying it is the power of their skill alone that will prevail. I am simply stating this argument is desperately over reaching.

Above most others who have posted on this site, you seem to be one of intelligence. Can't you at least understand the true power we could all have as A&P mechanics if that power was put under one single contract?

Fantasy? Indeed it is if no one tries. But one worth considering at the very least. AMFA takes the very basic philosophies but does not have the fortitude to follow through to make it a reality. It was my experience with them, and not my opinion, that lead me to the realization that they would never truly follow a CRAFT philosophy. They just want a lot of members.

If that is the case, why then continue to nurse this fallacy? Why not throw in with an established union with the resources readily available to protect it's members regardless of craft? Teamsters are not promising a CRAFT reality.

I speak out against AMFA because I feel I was lied to. That is the point of my argument and nothing more. AMFA sold me on the CRAFT union argument. I found out, it was never their real intent. They don't want the craft. Just a few more airlines.

 

[iluvaa]

There was no lie in my explanation of how I believe a Craft Union could benefit all mechanics. There was no lie in my explanation of how the IBT came on UAL property and how I believe they will soon make a move for AA. There was no lie in my explanation of the lack of representation for line mechanics who do not have access to a Local at both the IBT and at AMFA. Start thinking and standing for yourself.

I have nothing else to say to you pal. Your just following others.

Big differance between me and a common liar like yourself. I sit back and read post you write half of them I call that a huge differance in credability