Industrial vs. Craft

[TWU informer]

You do know how Pensions work right, you don't get a check until you put money in first & what you get in calculated in a formula that is different for each organization represented, I don't know what the formula is.

So you know nothing about this Teamsters Pension plan but have been using it as a tool to get cards signed?

I want to you tell me everything you know about this pension McCoy. You brought it up as an asset and a reason to supporting the Teamsters, please tell me all about it so I can be informed like you are.

Surely if it is such a great deal, there are many links on the web for us to view the details and the legal aspects of the plan?

Just answer my questions and stop spinning your responses to the specific question. I am all for an additional pension too, and you might be able to sell me if this a great deal for me and my co-workers. Details would be requried for me to buy in though.

Now I know you have not been hoodwinked or lied too, so give us the details about the pension plan.

 

[Vortilon]

You do know how Pensions work right, you don't get a check until you put money in first & what you get is calculated in a formula that is different for each organization represented, I don't know what the formula is, probably no one does until we are actually in it.
I do know some guys in my shop who are presently recieving a Teamster Pension check though & they like it.

Never gonna happen Raptor-Troll.

 

[TWU informer]

I do know some guys in my shop who are presently recieving a Teamster Pension check though & they like it, I can introduce you.

I dont want to know what someone else is getting. I want you to back up your claims that you and me will receive a pension check too and the details about that issue. I want you to tell me how much and when I will get mine....brother?

You brought this issue up and now you cannot answer any details about it.

This is why these discussions venture off into unprofessional bashing of you and others like you. Because you all make some unsubstantiated claim, and then refuse to answer with specifics, all the while claiming you have no need to go to any informational meeting because you already know all you need to know. Well, share with me what you know then!! Or admit you are making false claims or at least admit that you are supporting something you know nothing about.

 

[Raptorman49]

So you know nothing about this Teamsters Pension plan but have been using it as a tool to get cards signed?

I want to you tell me everything you know about this pension McCoy. You brought it up as an asset and a reason to supporting the Teamsters, please tell me all about it so I can be informed like you are.

Surely if it is such a great deal, there are many links on the web for us to view the details and the legal aspects of the plan?

Just answer my questions and stop spinning your responses to the specific question. I am all for an additional pension too, and you might be able to sell me if this a great deal for me and my co-workers. Details would be requried for me to buy in though.

Now I know you have not been hoodwinked or lied too, so give us the details about the pension plan.

Once again your putting words in my mouth, I never said I was using the Pension to get cards signed what I said was I didn't have to say anything about the Teamsters to get cards signed, in fact I didn't even know about the Pension until AFTER I got the almost 100 cards, remember my entire shop signed on the first day of the card drive, that was not enough time for any of us to know anything about the Teamsters except that they are bigger than any other Union, we did know that but that's about it, the other people who gave me cards also did within a few days so there was no time to get to know the Teamsters it all happened way to fast, if you want to know why people are signing Teamster cards so fast then walk around the base with me & we will ask them ..... couldn't be easier to find out, personally I don't care why the Teamsters are so popular, all I care about is it looks like they are going to easily be able to get enough cards to call for a Election & that's good enough for me.

 

[Raptorman49]

Never gonna happen Raptor-Troll.

We'll see

 

[Raptorman49]

I dont want to know what someone else is getting. I want you to tell me how much and when I will get mine....brother?

You brought this issue up and now you cannot answer any details about it.

This is why these discussions venture off into unprofessional bashing of you and others like you. Because you all make some unsubstantiated claim, and then refuse to answer with specifics, all the while claiming you have no need to go to any informational meeting because you already know all you need to know. Well, share with me what you know then!! Or admit you are making false claims or at least admit that you are supporting something you know nothing about.

Ok Teamster Hotline where you can get ALL your questions answered 1-877-589-4951
Do your own research Man, I'm not your secretary.

 

[TWU informer]

Ok Teamster Hotline where you can get ALL your questions answered 1-877-589-4951
Do your own research Man, I'm not your secretary.

Just as I figured. You are telling lies to members on the base and readers here on these forums, and supporting issues that have no validity.

You deserve to be bashed, hammered, and treated the same way you treat those you are selling snake-oil BS full of empty promises.

You brought this issue up and now cannot answer a damn thing about it.
Right after making the claim that you already know everything you need to know to make an informed decision as a reason to not attend any informational meetings.

Please stay on their team, they deserve you.

 

[Raptorman49]

Just as I figured. You are telling lies to members on the base and readers here on these forums, and supporting issues that have no validity.

You deserve to be bashed, hammered, and treated the same way you treat those you are selling snake-oil BS full of empty promises.

You brought this issue up and now cannot answer a damn thing about it.
Right after making the claim that you already know everything you need to know to make an informed decision as a reason to not attend any informational meetings.

Please stay on their team, they deserve you.

What I know is that AMFA can't get enough cards & that's what matters, makes no difference what AMFA is about if the Majority doesn't want them.

 

[Birdman]

I only know of a couple of guys in hangar 1 that have signed IBT cards as most know from multiple TWU insiders that it's a ruse. Why else would the TWU not be attacking with venom over their drive?

 

[TWU informer]

What I know is that AMFA can't get enough cards & that's what matters, makes no difference what AMFA is about if the Majority doesn't want them.

Looks and sounds like three guinea pigs in a boat, one repeating over and over....

"Row".......'Row"......"Row".........."Row"........."Row"

And then one jumps from the boat and exclaims.....

"Da, Plane - Da, Plane" The fantasy teamsters island of the tulsa maintenance base

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Once again your putting words in my mouth, I never said I was using the Pension to get cards signed what I said was I didn't have to say anything about the Teamsters to get cards signed, in fact I didn't even know about the Pension until AFTER I got the almost 100 cards, remember my entire shop signed on the first day of the card drive, that was not enough time for any of us to know anything about the Teamsters except that they are bigger than any other Union, we did know that but that's about it, the other people who gave me cards also did within a few days so there was no time to get to know the Teamsters it all happened way to fast, if you want to know why people are signing Teamster cards so fast then walk around the base with me & we will ask them ..... couldn't be easier to find out, personally I don't care why the Teamsters are so popular, all I care about is it looks like they are going to easily be able to get enough cards to call for a Election & that's good enough for me.

Dan,

The bottom of your post says let's make it a teamster/AMFA vs twu so we can replace the twu. What makes me wonder is that you told me you thought that AMFA was the better union but because people simply signed a teamster card it was easier to support the teamsters. I know you believe in the AMFA structure of democracy so why accept a teamster card? I know you believe that the teamsters are the mirror image of the twu so why accept a teamster card?

You sell yourself out by going against your beliefs. You contradict yourself with the line at the bottom of your post. Everyone admits we need to get rid of the twu but by peddling the teamsters it is like placing your left sock on your right foot and your right sock on your left foot. You changed but did you really?

When we spoke on the phone I told you that we DO NOT get to vote for all officers within the twu international not within the teamsters. We do with AMFA. This means accountability for those whom we elect. You agree with this structure.

As I told you on the phone, the teamsters are here to ATTEMPT to spoil the AMFA drive. The teamsters will NOT get enough cards to file with the NMB. You want the twu gone and so do I. AMFA will be that union to unseat the twu.

 

[TWU informer]

AMT Resources and where do they go with Industrial Unions




Just before the Edwards scandal was in the news.
James C Little erosion of the middle class "Without Further Ratification"
17.5% paycut for 11 years now
5 Holidays
5 Vacation days
Work Rules
Health Caps removed
Sick time lost

 

[Raptorman49]

Dan,

The bottom of your post says let's make it a teamster/AMFA vs twu so we can replace the twu. What makes me wonder is that you told me you thought that AMFA was the better union but because people simply signed a teamster card it was easier to support the teamsters. I know you believe in the AMFA structure of democracy so why accept a teamster card? I know you believe that the teamsters are the mirror image of the twu so why accept a teamster card?

You sell yourself out by going against your beliefs. You contradict yourself with the line at the bottom of your post. Everyone admits we need to get rid of the twu but by peddling the teamsters it is like placing your left sock on your right foot and your right sock on your left foot. You changed but did you really?

When we spoke on the phone I told you that we DO NOT get to vote for all officers within the twu international not within the teamsters. We do with AMFA. This means accountability for those whom we elect. You agree with this structure.

As I told you on the phone, the teamsters are here to ATTEMPT to spoil the AMFA drive. The teamsters will NOT get enough cards to file with the NMB. You want the twu gone and so do I. AMFA will be that union to unseat the twu.

Hi Ken

after talking to Don a few minutes ago I am now of the opinion that Neither the Teamsters or AMFA are likely to get enough cards to get to an Election, AA Mechanics just can't get on the same page everybody seems to have some type of Issue with the Competing Unions so more than likely we are going to be stuck with the TWU like we have been for the last 25+ years that I have been with AA, I don't like it but I resolved back in 2003 that we were doomed to be stuck with them so I can live with it, I don't have many more years left with AA anyway & after the 6 year contract were getting ready to be stuck with I might just go ahead & retire at the end of it, I don't actually agree that the Teamsters & TWU are exactly the same, I think there are enough differences that I would be fine with a change to them, I also don't agree that the Teamster drive isn't real, I think it's as real as the AMFA drive, I do agree that AMFA would most likely be better for A&P Mechanics but it's not looking very good for either of the competing Unions to be able to get enough cards, My game plan is to sit back relax & see what happens, not going to get my hopes up again .... Been there & done that once already.
Probably won't post to much on this Board anymore cause it's a waste of time.
I wish you the best of luck in your Efforts, would love to see the TWU go away.

 

[TWU informer]

Hi Ken

after talking to Don a few minutes ago I am now of the opinion that Neither the Teamsters or AMFA are likely to get enough cards to get to an Election, AA Mechanics just can't get on the same page everybody seems to have some type of Issue with the Competing Unions so more than likely we are going to be stuck with the TWU like we have been for the last 25+ years that I have been with AA, I don't like it but I resolved back in 2003 that we were doomed to be stuck with them so I can live with it, I don't have many more years left with AA anyway & after the 6 year contract were getting ready to be stuck with I might just go ahead & retire at the end of it, I don't actually agree that the Teamsters & TWU are exactly the same, I think there are enough differences that I would be fine with a change to them, I also don't agree that the Teamster drive isn't real, I think it's as real as the AMFA drive, I do agree that AMFA would most likely be better for A&P Mechanics but it's not looking very good for either of the competing Unions to be able to get enough cards, My game plan is to sit back relax & see what happens, not going to get my hopes up again .... Been there & done that once already.
Probably won't post to much on this Board anymore cause it's a waste of time.
I wish you the best of luck in your Efforts, would love to see the TWU go away.

Damn, leave it to Don to shut down our best organizer for AMFA.

Why don't you just keep pretending and posting that great stuff that helps the AMFA drive?

You know the good cop, bad cop routine?

I mean you were really helping by spewing that Teamster rhetoric.

Please re-consider for the good of everyone involved.

Nothing related to our profession and future is a waste of time!!!

Often bad is good in this game against evil people and dirty politics.

Dammit Don!!!

Come on McCoy, we could use your help if it is within you.

 

[Raptorman49]

The funny thing is if the Line was willing to support Teamsters we would have Teamsters or if the Tulsa base were willing to support AMFA we would have AMFA but as usual it's the line Stations vs Tulsa, it's always been that way & looks like it's always going to be that way, time will tell whether either organization can overcome this divide.

One bit of good news for the Line is that after the Layoff's the Line & Tulsa will be much closer in headcount, glad i'm probably going to retire after this contract because I can only Imagine what kind of raises the Line would negotiate for Tulsa compared to what they negotiate for themselves.
I believe Aviation is going to continue to degrade regardless of what Union we have, I'm so glad I'm almost out of this dieing field of work forever.