Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

Find that hard to believe. If you have that much seniority, you should know better by now then to back the reamsters.

I was going to send you an Email telling you who I am so you could look up my seniority, but you don't have email support on your account, As I said my Identity is only secret from the Company, don't care if board members know who I am, Ask Dave & he will tell you who I am & you can look my seniority up. 25+ years B)

 

[Buck]

Tulsa has the numbers & their mostly all in one place so the line stations need Tulsa's support way more than Tulsa needs the line stations ..... It is what it is.

However the question is how much support does each have and where is it located on the base. There is most likely a three way run between the TWU. AMFA and the IBT.

 

[Buck]

No I don't really know why the Teamsters are so Popular in Tulsa & from my perspective it doesn't really matter, it is what it is, If they are the ones that can get us to a vote then I'm ok with that, I just want to be rid of the TWU & try something else.

The Teamsters have popularity because they are not the TWU.

 

[Raptorman49]

However the question is how much support does each have and where is it located on the base. There is most likely a three way run between the TWU. AMFA and the IBT.

Yes that is a good question Buck & the Teamsters are working on Identifying that, they are making a Demographic chart of the base showing where their support is strong & where its weak & needs more organizer attention, having lots of money & resources has its advantages.

 

[Raptorman49]

The Teamsters have popularity because they are not the TWU.

I understand them being more popular than the TWU what I meant was I don't really know why Teamsters are more popular than AMFA at the Tulsa base but I really don't care ..... It is what it is, we just need a competing Union to get enough cards to get to an Election, I for one have no problem with a three way race.

 

[TWU informer]

I understand them being more popular than the TWU what I meant was I don't really know why Teamsters are more popular than AMFA at the Tulsa base but I really don't care ..... It is what it is, we just need a competing Union to get enough cards to get to an Election, I for one have no problem with a three way race.

You have no proof that the Teamsters are more popular than AMFA on the Tulsa base. You keep spewing that crap because your work area has Teamsters cards signed, yet my card collection and card count which is more transparent that your card count, is that your building has signed both cards not just one. So you create this lie in your own mind to justify supporting that which you claim is not worth supporting. You admit Craft Unionism is a better choice, but keep playing this lie in your head over and over. Man they really found a jewel of a gullible assistant when they found you. What you are seeing Dan is support for change, and you twist that into more Teamsters support that AMFA support. You have no proof, you are just being led by a paid organizer that doesn't even work at the base, and ignoring your 25+ year fellow mechanics working on the base. You wont buy what your fellow AMT tells you but you buy everything the the paid Teamster tells you. Wow you are true leader, and stand-up guy, one that claims he has no interest in invovlement after the drive. That makes you a man filled with vengenace towards the TWU not an AMT with a passion for the profession. That is why AMFA failed at United, they had too many like you and once the change to AMFA was complete, they ran an hid instead of standing up to lead. You want to get rid of the TWU using the Teamsters but then will not step up and lead to insure that change succeeds. It would fail too.

Go ahead and believe your fantasy, McCoy.

Come through the other work areas next week, exclaiming "da plane, da plane" and then you can make the fantasy island idea of the Tulsa maintenance base getting you enough cards a true fantasy island. And then once again the line AMT will blame the Tulsa Base employees for us remaining with the TWU. And you will be the TWU Hero as always in that you wouldn't listen to reason and your fellow AMT's, but you bite in hook, line, and sinker, to the Ricardo Montalbán fantasy island otherwise known as the Tulsa Maintnenace Base.

I think I will decline walking through the base with you McCoy, I want nothing to do with your failed plan for the profession. I am not interested in an emotional response to such a serious problem. You should and will take sole ownership of what you are unable or willing to lead. Nothing like having a movement towards change without a leader on the property. You may as well be called a drone weapon of the Teamsters Drive.

 

[Raptorman49]

You have no proof that the Teamsters are more popular than AMFA on the Tulsa base. You keep spewing that crap because your work area has Teamsters cards signed, yet my card collection and card count which is more transparent that your card count, is that your building has signed both cards not just one. So you create this lie in your own mind to justify supporting that which you claim is not worth supporting. You admit Craft Unionism is a better choice, but keep playing this lie in your head over and over. Man they really found a jewel of a gullible assistant when they found you. What you are seeing Dan is support for change, and you twist that into more Teamsters support that AMFA support. You have no proof, you are just being led by a paid organizer that doesn't even work at the base, and ignoring your 25+ year fellow mechanics working on the base. You wont buy what your fellow AMT tells you but you buy everything the the paid Teamster tells you. Wow you are true leader, and stand-up guy, one that claims he has no interest in invovlement after the drive. That makes you a man filled with vengenace towards the TWU not an AMT with a passion for the profession. That is why AMFA failed at United, they had too many like you and once the change to AMFA was complete, they ran an hid instead of standing up to lead. You want to get rid of the TWU using the Teamsters but then will not step up and lead to insure that change succeeds. It would fail too.

Go ahead and believe your fantasy, McCoy.

Come through the other work areas next week, exclaiming "da plane, da plane" and then you can make the fantasy island idea of the Tulsa maintenance base getting you enough cards a true fantasy island. And then once again the line AMT will blame the Tulsa Base employees for us remaining with the TWU. And you will be the TWU Hero as always in that you wouldn't listen to reason and your fellow AMT's, but you bite in hook, line, and sinker, to the Ricardo Montalbán fantasy island otherwise known as the Tulsa Maintnenace Base.

I think I will decline walking through the base with you McCoy, I want nothing to do with your failed plan for the profession. I am not interested in an emotional response to such a serious problem.

Just as I thought you know that a walk around the base would be easy to prove that the Teamsters are way more popular here in Tulsa than AMFA ....It is what it is, even in past AMFA stronghold areas like the CSD shop you will see that their has been a change .... Go look for yourself ...... It is what it is, Don't be so Emotional Dave, nothing to get upset about its just a card drive.

 

[Raptorman49]

Personal attacks against people who disagree with you will only hurt your cause ..... Nobody likes a bully , that's just one more reason the AMFA drive isnt doing well ..... Aggressive hostile organizers

 

[Raptorman49]

In the past when someone was aggressive & hostile towards me over disagreements I would reciprocate it but I'm above that now & will not engage in pointless behavior over out of control Emotions, this drive is not personal for me .....It's business nothing more.

 

[TWU informer]

Just as I thought you know that a walk around the base would be easy to prove that the Teamsters are way more popular here in Tulsa than AMFA ....It is what it is, even in past AMFA stronghold areas like the CSD shop you will see that their has been a change .... Go look for yourself ...... It is what it is, Don't be so Emotional Dave, nothing to get upset about its just a card drive.

Personal attacks against people who disagree with you will only hurt your cause ..... Nobody likes a bully , that's just one more reason the AMFA drive isnt doing well ..... Aggressive hostile organizers

In the past when someone was aggressive & hostile towards me over disagreements I would reciprocate it but I'm above that now & will not engage in pointless behavior over out of control Emotions, this drive is not personal for me .....It's business nothing more.

I have the signed cards, you have a fantasy. You even claim to not know where your weak areas are, I do know.
"The Teamsters, are working on that for you though, hang in there.

You will not stand up and lead, you are a follower. Not my words, your own.
"Agressive and Hostile", is that what you call it when the truth hits you in the face?
You will not listen to reason, so as you say "it is what is" or more accurate for you is that "you are what you are." A FOLLOWER....always have been, always will be.

You get all upset when I say the exact same thing you are saying. Why is that. You will be treated as you deserve to be treated, like a childish follower in a gang, without any direction, or leadership, seeking only revenge, not a passion for the profession.

Three post in row, no you wont reciprocate with emotions now will you......ROFL
You will make a great Teamster Appointee, and it will be business for you personally. Congrats on that one.
Who did you think will LEAD this big fantasy of yours? Steve Luis? Dennis Burchette? Who Dan?
Without leadership, you will only get worse, that is what we are experiencing now.

"Da, Plane - Da, Plane"!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

"Da, Plane - Da, Plane"
Let's all go join a Union that requires Federal Government over sight due to corruption.

 

[Raptorman49]

I am not following or leading I AM making a choice & I CHOOSE to collect Teamsters cards because I believe they can actually get us to an Election & after we get the Teamsters in I CHOOSE to have no further involvement as an officer etc. because that is my CHOICE, someone will step up & Lead once we get a new Union they always do.
I definitely CHOOSE not to follow you & your wishes, you go your way & I will go mine.

 

[TWU informer]

DO YOU NEED ANOTHER “catch-all” INDUSTRIAL UNION LIKE TWU?
that will represent virtually anyone?


Teamsters Constitution “Catch All Unionism”

Jurisdiction
Section 1(a). This organization has jurisdiction over all workers including, without limitation, teamsters, chauffeurs, warehousemen, and helpers; all who are employed on or around horses, harness, carriages, automobiles, trucks, trailers, aircraft, and all other vehicles hauling, carrying, or conveying freight, merchandise, or materials; automotive sales, service, and maintenance employees; garage workers and service station employees; warehousemen of all kinds employed in warehouse work, stockmen, shipping room employees, and loaders,
that is, persons engaged in loading or unloading freight, merchandise, or other materials on, to, or from any type of vehicle; all classes of dairy employees, inside and outside,
including salesmen, brewery and soft drink workers; workers employed in ice cream plants; all other workers employed in the manufacture, processing, sale, and distribution of food, milk, dairy, and other products; all truck terminal employees; cannery workers; all craft or classes of airline and rail employees, including locomotive engineers, trainmen, rail traffic controllers, and
maintenance of way workers; office, technical, and professional employees; health care employees; agricultural employees; public employees; all classifications of employees in the graphic communications industry; law enforcement personnel and industrial employees.



WE DESERVE A CRAFT UNION

AMFA Constitution

There shall be two divisions of membership:

1. Airline Technical Division – shall include all licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who work or instruct directly on aircraft and/or components of a certificated air carrier and are responsible for the airworthiness or workmanship of the aircraft and/or its components. This includes maintenance support technicians and related personnel as defined by the National Mediation Board’s determination of the Mechanics and Related Class and Craft.

1. Aviation Technical Division – shall include all licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who work directly on general aviation aircraft and/or components and are responsible for the airworthiness and workmanship of an aircraft and/or its components. This includes line, shop, and hangar maintenance.

THE AMFA IDEA IS TO GET ALL MECHANICS INTO ONE UNION
THIS IDEA CAN ONLY BE TRIED WITH YOUR HELP AND INVOLVEMENT

 

[TWU informer]

After Winning Election, Hoffa Targets Teamsters’ Right to Vote


| December 28, 2011

In the wake of the November Teamster election, top officials are calling for stripping members of their right to vote for president and international executive board. Photo: Teamsters for a Democratic Union.





In the wake of the November Teamster election, top officials are calling for stripping members of their right to vote for president and international officers.
James Hoffa, president for the past 13 years, won the election with 59 percent of the vote, besting two opponents: Vice President Fred Gegare and New York local president Sandy Pope, who was backed by Teamsters for a Democratic Union.
Vice President Dan Kane then told officials in New York that it’s time to return to choosing presidents at union conventions. Other Hoffa lieutenants around the country soon floated the same line.
TDU, the reform movement within the union, is sounding the alarm to defend the right of members to elect their top officers.
FIVE MORE YEARS

Hoffa won despite a decade of declining Teamster standards, contract concessions, and pension cuts, illustrating the power of incumbency.

He raised $3 million, according to his slate’s financial reports, most of it from officials who owe their positions or power to him. His multiple mailings to the 1.3 million members were devoted to attacks on Pope. His campaign paid telemarketers to make hundreds of thousands of phone calls.

The union itself spent millions for a supposedly nonpartisan GOTV program, featuring automated phone calls from Bill Clinton and Danny DeVito (yes, the one who made the movie Hoffa).
The election supervisor also found that Hoffa and his election team had tried to bribe three high-level officials whom they wanted to deter from running, a violation Hoffa had to acknowledge in a mailing to all locals.
Pope raised about $200,000, and TDU contributed its own independent campaign support. Her phonebanks were staffed by volunteers.

A decade of corporate attacks and member demobilization took a toll on turnout and on Hoffa’s vote total. Just 20 percent of the union, 250,000 members, returned ballots.

But more important is the toll on Teamster power.

The TDU-backed candidate in the 1990s, Ron Carey, could tap a sentiment that Teamster power was real, and just needed someone willing to unleash it. And the union began to do just that, including the victorious 1997 UPS strike.
In the recent political climate, our argument has been more difficult: that Teamster power can be rebuilt. Thousands of members are up for the challenge, and are the heart and soul of the TDU movement. But most Teamsters have been hunkered down, without great hopes of transforming the union to take on corporate power.
Where Pope and TDU had volunteers on the ground, turnout was higher and the majority voted against Hoffa. Her candidacy inspired thousands of Teamsters, many of whom had given up on our union.
SUCCESSION STRATEGY

Teamsters—unlike most North American unionists—directly elect their president and executive board, with an impartial election supervisor to oversee the process. This right was won in the late 1980s when the Justice Department brought a racketeering lawsuit against top Teamster officials and mobsters. TDU mobilized to argue against a government takeover and for members’ right to vote.

Hoffa associates are now trotting out three tired rationales for ending the right to vote: Elections have low turnout, cost a lot, and “distract” from the union’s business.
The real reason: Hoffa is 70 years old and looking for a successor before the next election. Running an untested candidate, without a famous last name, is a problem for the old guard. Between 2006 and today, Hoffa’s majority slipped by 7 percent.
So quashing the right to vote is an insurance policy against a successful insurgency in 2016.
TDU members will not be waiting for the next election. Important contracts are coming up, including the largest in the country—260,000 Teamsters—at UPS. Pope’s campaign was stronger in UPS and other national units, where Teamsters have their contracts bargained by the international, not their local.

In areas where TDU has strong local roots, the election results were dramatically different from the national result. That is the base we will build on.

The argument that rank-and-file power can rebuild the Teamsters has been a hard sell in the last year.
But anti-corporate populism shows signs of gaining steam—thanks in good part to the 99% movement. TDU embodies that spirit within the Teamsters.
Hoffa is fond of calling the Teamsters “America’s strongest union.” Our job is to do our part to make that power a reality.

 

[TWU informer]

I am not following or leading I AM making a choice & I CHOOSE to collect Teamsters cards because I believe they can actually get us to an Election & after we get the Teamsters in I CHOOSE to have no further involvement as an officer etc. because that is my CHOICE, someone will step up & Lead once we get a new Union they always do.
I definitely CHOOSE not to follow you & your wishes, you go your way & I will go mine.

You are nothing more than an Institutional Political Advocate that is here to spread negative opinions and fear of failure if we change directions.

You claim to have our best interest in your actions, but it is clear you are here to protect the institutional greed and power, even it does mean detriment to the profession.

Well guess what, we are failing now, we have experienced years and years of negative outcomes, we are failing and the industrial unions have had over 50 years to correct that and have failed us all.The industrial unions IAM, IBT, TWU, have been the majority of all representation during these years of destruction of our profession.

You simply want us to continue the same path of destruction, and you use negatives and fear of failure as the basis for your beliefs, I say we need to change.

Your negative opinions and expressions of fear of failure mean nothing to me, because that is what we have all experienced for years with the industrial unions representing the craft and class.

I see you for what you are. I do not fear change, I welcome change when I am witnessing decimation of a profession.

I have no interest in protection of the failing institution, their greed, their falsely perceived power.

One big hurdle that is encountered when attempting cultural change is institutional politics, that is who you are, that is what you represent, and you should be considered one of many hurdles that needs to be ignored and rejected as one step in the process of positive change.