I'm ready to go AMFA

[1AA]

I find it unbelievable that you are here defending the TWU actions at AA. And you have the nerve of downing The AMFA at SWA and others.

You are living in some alternate universe.

Overspeed is following his masters orders. No matter what you say or prove he will always defend the TWU and label AMFA as the enemy. The proof are in his posts.

 

[1AA]

Overspeed

You need to throttle back, I never said AMFA was a saving grace and that they could or would keep work in house. The Industry is changing more and more Airlines are contracting out work. That is the future at this time. It may change down the road, as the airlines realize doing the work twice is not cost effective.

The IAM, IBT and AMFA all have contracted out work well so has the TWU NOW.

My rant was that we at AA have a union which has NOT done its job for a long time. The leadership at the TWU has failed and we cant vote them out so its time to shed the TWU. I respect that you support the TWU, every one has their opinion.

I have NOT seen the TWU post or send any info to us trying to get us the AMT's to support anything that would tell the FAA, NTSB, congress, anyone that the RLA needs to be changed, outsourcing of aircraft maintenanace to MROs or foriegn Maintenance Facilities is a mistake. The TWU only cares about dues.. That is why we take pay cut after paycut. Its a numbers game to them.

CHANGE IS NEEDED HERE AT AA THE TWU NEEDS TO GO...

Your wasting your time with him. Don't bother. No one else does.

 

[Overspeed]

Hey Donby,

Your long winded excuse for keeping the twu doesn't answer the reason why the twu shouldn't be removed at AA. Your long winded bs post can't excuse the FACT that the twu international officers are appointed and not elected by the membership and that the twu international officers are unaccountable to the membership. Oh, and not one twu supporter can promote the twu without using an alias.

GO AMFA!

Ken, elected AMFA union officials at UA did not enforce the scope language that was in place, elected AMFA officials did not prevent AS from shutting down the OAK overhaul base, elected union officials did not stop the most profitable airline from outsourcing more work to El Salvador. Want to know why? Because organizations like the one that gave you $500 (ARSA) and corporations that gave you $3,000 (AA) are having their way with AMT's through outsourcing your jobs.

Face it Ken, you accept help from anyone as long as it helps YOU out. Don V getting the DFW transfer list opened for you was great for YOU so you remained silent. Little sending you one of many checks to support making Charles Taylor busts, YOU cashed that check without a hiccup. ARSA, a union busting and AMT outsourcing group, sent you cash to honor Charles Taylor and you had no problem fulfilling one of AMFA's core values - integrity - and you cashed that check. AA sends you $3,000 for the Charles Taylor memorial as well while you talk about shoving it up their tail and cry about how much they disrespect the AMT profession and YOU cashed that check. Ken you are the furthest away from the meaning of integrity.

You are exactly like the mouse you use in your picture, plastic and small. You through up red herrings constantly. AMFA is a abject failure. Look up the LM2, in 2004 they had over 18,000 members and now? 2,700. Awesome Ken. Great record. Lost 15,000 members and only extended one contract at WN (which is actually an IBT contract). AMFA has done nothing a lost everything. Thousands of jobs for a contract extension? That's called sucking Ken, sucking big time. Ken if the AMFA mentality was in place at AA, all of TUL and the rest of TAESL would be gone. DWH would be running with four to five lines of airframe overhaul and you, you would be over working those seat mods for the contractor asking Frank how does it feel to make $42/hour.

 

[Overspeed]

Overspeed

You need to throttle back, I never said AMFA was a saving grace and that they could or would keep work in house. The Industry is changing more and more Airlines are contracting out work. That is the future at this time. It may change down the road, as the airlines realize doing the work twice is not cost effective.

The IAM, IBT and AMFA all have contracted out work well so has the TWU NOW.

My rant was that we at AA have a union which has NOT done its job for a long time. The leadership at the TWU has failed and we cant vote them out so its time to shed the TWU. I respect that you support the TWU, every one has their opinion.

I have NOT seen the TWU post or send any info to us trying to get us the AMT's to support anything that would tell the FAA, NTSB, congress, anyone that the RLA needs to be changed, outsourcing of aircraft maintenanace to MROs or foriegn Maintenance Facilities is a mistake. The TWU only cares about dues.. That is why we take pay cut after paycut. Its a numbers game to them.

CHANGE IS NEEDED HERE AT AA THE TWU NEEDS TO GO...

I never said the TWU has stopped outsourcing. The TWU has never agreed to outsourcing anywhere near the amount AMFA, IBT, and the IAM has agreed to or allowed.

Did you not see Gless testify before the House Aviation Subcommittee on restricting further outsourcing? I have. Has the TWU been in contact with press on restricting outsourcing? Yes. They published a report that was quoted by the media many times in the past few years. Your 561 officers have let you down i they have not told you about all the things the TWU has been doing for you. Rojas, Ruiz, Peterson, and Owens spend too much of their time self-promoting and not enough time representing the facts.

 

[odie01]

I never said the TWU has stopped outsourcing. The TWU has never agreed to outsourcing anywhere near the amount AMFA, IBT, and the IAM has agreed to or allowed.

Did you not see Gless testify before the House Aviation Subcommittee on restricting further outsourcing? I have. Has the TWU been in contact with press on restricting outsourcing? Yes. They published a report that was quoted by the media many times in the past few years. Your 561 officers have let you down i they have not told you about all the things the TWU has been doing for you. Rojas, Ruiz, Peterson, and Owens spend too much of their time self-promoting and not enough time representing the facts.

OK, thanks. Now get some more AMFA cards signed!

 

[Bob Owens]

I never said the TWU has stopped outsourcing. The TWU has never agreed to outsourcing anywhere near the amount AMFA, IBT, and the IAM has agreed to or allowed.

Did you not see Gless testify before the House Aviation Subcommittee on restricting further outsourcing? I have. Has the TWU been in contact with press on restricting outsourcing? Yes. They published a report that was quoted by the media many times in the past few years. Your 561 officers have let you down i they have not told you about all the things the TWU has been doing for you. Rojas, Ruiz, Peterson, and Owens spend too much of their time self-promoting and not enough time representing the facts.

Never say never. Who led the legacy carriers in outsourcing prior to 9-11? Wasn't it AA, even though AA was the only carrier with second class mechanics earning super low wages in our contract-OSMs? Historically the TWU always agreed to more outsourcing than the IAM, it took 9-11 and BK to change that. The IBT never had much of a presence prior to 9-11, just SWA as far as i remember, the rest were small.

By the way what exactly is the limit on outsourcing? How many jobs? How many manhours?


Whats Uniteds furlough protection date? Isnt it 12/31/11? Whats ours? Oh yes, thats right, nobody in the TWU has system protection anymore at AA.

Where is the language that prohibits AA from sending anything overseas? The fact is they could send any fleet they want overseas, they could send everything they outsource overseas,cant they? So, if overseas costs half as much that means they can send out twice as much work and elimninate twice as many jobs. So, once again, not even factoring in parts, lets say the cost to outsource is equal to in house, that means that they can outsource 35 out of 100 jobs, but if they get it done for half the cost then they can outsource 70 out of 100 jobs.

UAL has language that says they have to keep the narrow bodies in the US, that means they have to pay more and makes a more effective outsourcing limit than our 35% (tentative) cap.

When did Gless testify about outsourcing, last December? What makes you so certian that we didnt send out whatever the International forwarded us? I believe we did.

Explain what you mean by "representing the facts". I always thought you "presented" facts. Please give the keyboard back to your better half.

Yep we have more mechanics,making less money, less vacation, less sick time, fewer Holidays, less IOD time with the worst pension and the worst workrules, compared to any other airline. You may be proud of that, I'm not.

Yes our peers went through BK. Their orrdeal was a lot shorter than ours. UAL mechanics gave their first round reorganization concessions in early 2003, they got a lot of it back by December of 2011. They operated under concessions for 8 years. We gave our first round or reorganization concessions in April of 2003 and wont have the opportunity to get anything back intil 2018, FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken, elected AMFA union officials at UA did not enforce the scope language that was in place, elected AMFA officials did not prevent AS from shutting down the OAK overhaul base, elected union officials did not stop the most profitable airline from outsourcing more work to El Salvador. Want to know why? Because organizations like the one that gave you $500 (ARSA) and corporations that gave you $3,000 (AA) are having their way with AMT's through outsourcing your jobs.

Face it Ken, you accept help from anyone as long as it helps YOU out. Don V getting the DFW transfer list opened for you was great for YOU so you remained silent. Little sending you one of many checks to support making Charles Taylor busts, YOU cashed that check without a hiccup. ARSA, a union busting and AMT outsourcing group, sent you cash to honor Charles Taylor and you had no problem fulfilling one of AMFA's core values - integrity - and you cashed that check. AA sends you $3,000 for the Charles Taylor memorial as well while you talk about shoving it up their tail and cry about how much they disrespect the AMT profession and YOU cashed that check. Ken you are the furthest away from the meaning of integrity.

You are exactly like the mouse you use in your picture, plastic and small. You through up red herrings constantly. AMFA is a abject failure. Look up the LM2, in 2004 they had over 18,000 members and now? 2,700. Awesome Ken. Great record. Lost 15,000 members and only extended one contract at WN (which is actually an IBT contract). AMFA has done nothing a lost everything. Thousands of jobs for a contract extension? That's called sucking Ken, sucking big time. Ken if the AMFA mentality was in place at AA, all of TUL and the rest of TAESL would be gone. DWH would be running with four to five lines of airframe overhaul and you, you would be over working those seat mods for the contractor asking Frank how does it feel to make $42/hour.

Hey Don,

You still didn't answer my question. The twu appointed international officers couldn't stop outsourcing either but they can't be removed. Now try and answer without another personal attack.

Go AMFA!

 

[swamt]

I find it unbelievable that you are here defending the TWU actions at AA. And you have the nerve of downing The AMFA at SWA and others.

You are living in some alternate universe.

C'mon Glenn, it's Overspeed man...

 

[swamt]

Ken, elected AMFA union officials at UA did not enforce the scope language that was in place, elected AMFA officials did not prevent AS from shutting down the OAK overhaul base, elected union officials did not stop the most profitable airline from outsourcing more work to El Salvador. Want to know why? Because organizations like the one that gave you $500 (ARSA) and corporations that gave you $3,000 (AA) are having their way with AMT's through outsourcing your jobs.

Face it Ken, you accept help from anyone as long as it helps YOU out. Don V getting the DFW transfer list opened for you was great for YOU so you remained silent. Little sending you one of many checks to support making Charles Taylor busts, YOU cashed that check without a hiccup. ARSA, a union busting and AMT outsourcing group, sent you cash to honor Charles Taylor and you had no problem fulfilling one of AMFA's core values - integrity - and you cashed that check. AA sends you $3,000 for the Charles Taylor memorial as well while you talk about shoving it up their tail and cry about how much they disrespect the AMT profession and YOU cashed that check. Ken you are the furthest away from the meaning of integrity.

You are exactly like the mouse you use in your picture, plastic and small. You through up red herrings constantly. AMFA is a abject failure. Look up the LM2, in 2004 they had over 18,000 members and now? 2,700. Awesome Ken. Great record. Lost 15,000 members and only extended one contract at WN (which is actually an IBT contract). AMFA has done nothing a lost everything. Thousands of jobs for a contract extension? That's called sucking Ken, sucking big time. Ken if the AMFA mentality was in place at AA, all of TUL and the rest of TAESL would be gone. DWH would be running with four to five lines of airframe overhaul and you, you would be over working those seat mods for the contractor asking Frank how does it feel to make $42/hour.

Overspeed, you are so full of sh%t. You have no clue on what is happening here at SWA as far as outsourcing. Keep trying though, it makes you look more patheteic as you go... Keep posting pls!!

 

[swamt]

Ken, elected AMFA union officials at UA did not enforce the scope language that was in place, elected AMFA officials did not prevent AS from shutting down the OAK overhaul base, elected union officials did not stop the most profitable airline from outsourcing more work to El Salvador. Want to know why? Because organizations like the one that gave you $500 (ARSA) and corporations that gave you $3,000 (AA) are having their way with AMT's through outsourcing your jobs.

Face it Ken, you accept help from anyone as long as it helps YOU out. Don V getting the DFW transfer list opened for you was great for YOU so you remained silent. Little sending you one of many checks to support making Charles Taylor busts, YOU cashed that check without a hiccup. ARSA, a union busting and AMT outsourcing group, sent you cash to honor Charles Taylor and you had no problem fulfilling one of AMFA's core values - integrity - and you cashed that check. AA sends you $3,000 for the Charles Taylor memorial as well while you talk about shoving it up their tail and cry about how much they disrespect the AMT profession and YOU cashed that check. Ken you are the furthest away from the meaning of integrity.

You are exactly like the mouse you use in your picture, plastic and small. You through up red herrings constantly. AMFA is a abject failure. Look up the LM2, in 2004 they had over 18,000 members and now? 2,700. Awesome Ken. Great record. Lost 15,000 members and only extended one contract at WN (which is actually an IBT contract). AMFA has done nothing a lost everything. Thousands of jobs for a contract extension? That's called sucking Ken, sucking big time. Ken if the AMFA mentality was in place at AA, all of TUL and the rest of TAESL would be gone. DWH would be running with four to five lines of airframe overhaul and you, you would be over working those seat mods for the contractor asking Frank how does it feel to make $42/hour.

I love it when people that have no idea what's going on over here at SWA post like they know everything. AMFA has in fact had 2 sec 6 openers at SWA. Yes they did extend a contract after the teamsters, but, this extention came after the 9-11 attacks when all the other airlines were asking and getting conssesions from their employees, and AMFA/SWA mechanics were able to secure an extention (with raises) during the downturn. Now I ask you all; DID any airline experience any wage increases during the same time? HELL NO!! They did not... Any more questions??...

 

[Overspeed]

I love it when people that have no idea what's going on over here at SWA post like they know everything. AMFA has in fact had 2 sec 6 openers at SWA. Yes they did extend a contract after the teamsters, but, this extention came after the 9-11 attacks when all the other airlines were asking and getting conssesions from their employees, and AMFA/SWA mechanics were able to secure an extention (with raises) during the downturn. Now I ask you all; DID any airline experience any wage increases during the same time? HELL NO!! They did not... Any more questions??...

Yes you have had two Sec 6 openers and NO new contract. You voted on two extensions, that's it. Compare the pre-AMFA contract with the post-AMFA one. Nice. You need to read your own agreement before you pop off. LOA 1 is AWESOME! Way to go one negotiating more outsourcing and capping AMT HC at 2.75 per aircraft regardless of work load. LOA which clearly states and acknowledges that AMFA is entered in to an agreement dated Aug 16, 2001 and they agreed to EXTEND that agreement again. Kick ass negotiations.

Wage increase in exchange for minimal jobs in-house. The WN contract at AA? That would be a big win for AA and a big lose for the AMTs at TUL and TAESL. How many engine shop AMTs at WN doing overhauls and heavy repairs? How many AMTs doing landing gear overhauls? How many in component overhaul? Oops! That work is all outsourced.

 

[DNTULSA]

Yes you have had two Sec 6 openers and NO new contract. You voted on two extensions, that's it. Compare the pre-AMFA contract with the post-AMFA one. Nice. You need to read your own agreement before you pop off. LOA 1 is AWESOME! Way to go one negotiating more outsourcing and capping AMT HC at 2.75 per aircraft regardless of work load. LOA which clearly states and acknowledges that AMFA is entered in to an agreement dated Aug 16, 2001 and they agreed to EXTEND that agreement again. Kick ass negotiations.

Wage increase in exchange for minimal jobs in-house. The WN contract at AA? That would be a big win for AA and a big lose for the AMTs at TUL and TAESL. How many engine shop AMTs at WN doing overhauls and heavy repairs? How many AMTs doing landing gear overhauls? How many in component overhaul? Oops! That work is all outsourced.

Overspeed;

Are you saying that the shops at Tulsa aren't going to be outscourced?

 

[Overspeed]

Never say never. Who led the legacy carriers in outsourcing prior to 9-11? Wasn't it AA, even though AA was the only carrier with second class mechanics earning super low wages in our contract-OSMs? Historically the TWU always agreed to more outsourcing than the IAM, it took 9-11 and BK to change that. The IBT never had much of a presence prior to 9-11, just SWA as far as i remember, the rest were small.

By the way what exactly is the limit on outsourcing? How many jobs? How many manhours?


Whats Uniteds furlough protection date? Isnt it 12/31/11? Whats ours? Oh yes, thats right, nobody in the TWU has system protection anymore at AA.

Where is the language that prohibits AA from sending anything overseas? The fact is they could send any fleet they want overseas, they could send everything they outsource overseas,cant they? So, if overseas costs half as much that means they can send out twice as much work and elimninate twice as many jobs. So, once again, not even factoring in parts, lets say the cost to outsource is equal to in house, that means that they can outsource 35 out of 100 jobs, but if they get it done for half the cost then they can outsource 70 out of 100 jobs.

UAL has language that says they have to keep the narrow bodies in the US, that means they have to pay more and makes a more effective outsourcing limit than our 35% (tentative) cap.

When did Gless testify about outsourcing, last December? What makes you so certian that we didnt send out whatever the International forwarded us? I believe we did.

Explain what you mean by "representing the facts". I always thought you "presented" facts. Please give the keyboard back to your better half.

Yep we have more mechanics,making less money, less vacation, less sick time, fewer Holidays, less IOD time with the worst pension and the worst workrules, compared to any other airline. You may be proud of that, I'm not.

Yes our peers went through BK. Their orrdeal was a lot shorter than ours. UAL mechanics gave their first round reorganization concessions in early 2003, they got a lot of it back by December of 2011. They operated under concessions for 8 years. We gave our first round or reorganization concessions in April of 2003 and wont have the opportunity to get anything back intil 2018, FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!!

No it was not AA. By percentage of maintenance spend adjusted for TAESL work AA never outsourced more than 15% of maintenance spend. Read Bob, read. You still make up facts.

Yes UA now has a system protected date of 12/31/11. Good point, how many airframe overhaul jobs did that protect at UA? NONE Bob! Why? Because the IAM and AMFA both let all that work go in BK. And the TWU in BK, how did they do? Well there are still going to be thousands working overhaul in components, airframe, and engines even after BK. Why? Because the Scope clause keeps 65% of spend in-house and that will be far more overhaul jobs than any US carrier. Bob you continue to distort the facts.

The outsourcing language in the TWU does not restrict outsourcing overseas. The point with AMFA - who you are defending - is that they brag about higher wages but they keep up giving more and more to get it. 2.75 AMT per aircraft HC floor for WN AMT is good? We are at 20 to 1 now and even with 35% outsourcing will have far more than 2.75 to 1 after BK.

Yes we gave concessions in 2003 and we continued to accrue pension, we continued to have thousands employed in AFW, TAESL, MCI, and TUL during that time. We will continue to have thousands employed after BK with some job loss. If you want to be like them then you need to walk in their shoes. Then we should have allowed all of airframe overhaul and components to be outsourced, gave up our pension, and retiree medical as well back in 2003. I thought you were claiming to be a fighter Bob. Your saying you knew the beating was coming, why not get your ass kicked back in 2003. But then again, it would not be your ass getting kicked because your are a Line AMT and you walk on water. Since the Baker letter is gone you can put your cape back on Captain Coffee Maker. You rerack faster than a first class seat can recline I hear.

 

[DNTULSA]

No it was not AA. By percentage of maintenance spend adjusted for TAESL work AA never outsourced more than 15% of maintenance spend. Read Bob, read. You still make up facts.

Yes UA now has a system protected date of 12/31/11. Good point, how many airframe overhaul jobs did that protect at UA? NONE Bob! Why? Because the IAM and AMFA both let all that work go in BK. And the TWU in BK, how did they do? Well there are still going to be thousands working overhaul in components, airframe, and engines even after BK. Why? Because the Scope clause keeps 65% of spend in-house and that will be far more overhaul jobs than any US carrier. Bob you continue to distort the facts.

The outsourcing language in the TWU does not restrict outsourcing overseas. The point with AMFA - who you are defending - is that they brag about higher wages but they keep up giving more and more to get it. 2.75 AMT per aircraft HC floor for WN AMT is good? We are at 20 to 1 now and even with 35% outsourcing will have far more than 2.75 to 1 after BK.

Yes we gave concessions in 2003 and we continued to accrue pension, we continued to have thousands employed in AFW, TAESL, MCI, and TUL during that time. We will continue to have thousands employed after BK with some job loss. If you want to be like them then you need to walk in their shoes. Then we should have allowed all of airframe overhaul and components to be outsourced, gave up our pension, and retiree medical as well back in 2003. I thought you were claiming to be a fighter Bob. Your saying you knew the beating was coming, why not get your ass kicked back in 2003. But then again, it would not be your ass getting kicked because your are a Line AMT and you walk on water. Since the Baker letter is gone you can put your cape back on Captain Coffee Maker. You rerack faster than a first class seat can recline I hear.

Overspeed;

How about the outscourcing in Tulsa?

You seem to ignore difficult questions.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes you have had two Sec 6 openers and NO new contract. You voted on two extensions, that's it. Compare the pre-AMFA contract with the post-AMFA one. Nice. You need to read your own agreement before you pop off. LOA 1 is AWESOME! Way to go one negotiating more outsourcing and capping AMT HC at 2.75 per aircraft regardless of work load. LOA which clearly states and acknowledges that AMFA is entered in to an agreement dated Aug 16, 2001 and they agreed to EXTEND that agreement again. Kick ass negotiations.

Wage increase in exchange for minimal jobs in-house. The WN contract at AA? That would be a big win for AA and a big lose for the AMTs at TUL and TAESL. How many engine shop AMTs at WN doing overhauls and heavy repairs? How many AMTs doing landing gear overhauls? How many in component overhaul? Oops! That work is all outsourced.

So you are saying that we did better than they did? Lets see, we lost 5000 jobs, plus pay, plus vacation, plus holidays, plus sick time, plus IOD time and locked into those concessions for 6 years that turned into 9 years then gave up another 17% for at least 6 more years-15 years of concessions, and agreed that the company can spend 35% of their total maintenance spend on outsourcing, subject to exclusions and it can be increased if they decide they no longer want Taesl.

Over that same period of time the guys at SWA saw pay increases, increases to the 401K match and increased headcount. We saw decreased headcount and pay cuts, Again, they saw pay increases and headcount increases while we saw pay-cuts and headcount cuts, they earn $10/hr more than we do and you are saying THEY don't know how to negotiate??? Are you for real? Are you saying that if you could trade places, have the same seniority at SWA as you have at AA that you would prefer to be at AA?