IBT No Show Forum

[AvTech04]

I can see how my usefulness on this forum has long passed it's due. I am no longer helping the situation, instead I seem to be spouting off from the tension this has all brought on. For that, I need to apologize to all my fellow AMT's on this forum, SWA and AT alike. I can admit when I've been wrong and I can see where I need to stop. I know I've said it before and again and again, but this time I am really going to lay off these forums for a good while, maybe indefinitely. Again, I sincerely apologize for anyone I may have offended.

I have truly only tried to help the situation in the majority of my post, but from misconception and not so good verbalization on my part, I've seem to be sabotaging it rather than assisting it. I was trying to show you guys @ SWA that we are not all bad over here at Airtran and that we all are really looking forward to joining AMFA and the SWA MX group someday, especially me! I do see your side of the situation and feel that you are all doing what is best for your interest. I can only ask that you not judge all the AT MX guys from me and my posts. There are a lot of good guys here and a lot that work really hard, not to say that you guys don't, but they are a good bunch of guys as a whole.

Please take the time and really consider this next TA and vote for it. I believe strongly that this a fair win-win for all of us. We could finally become a singular unified group and make AMFA over 2000 members stronger. And please, I ask that we really try and work past this integration so we can all work together for a better future for all of us. Take care all, AT and SWA

I owe a personal thanks to all the SWA guys on here that have been polite and respectful through out this whole ordeal. Keep up the good work!

And just for lineguy, I'm losing the banana just for you

 

[WNMECH]

Has anyone been following the-amt.com?? I'm dumbfounded by the comments being made in there by supposed SWA mechanics!! I mean, are there guys out there really trying to screw a measly 357 mechanics out of their livelihoods, out of their jobs, all because a 4 year increase isn't enough of a boost for them?? I mean, even a guy that posted as SWAMT is saying these things!

I believe a lot of the posts over there are BS.
When you can post as anonymous, some idiots go overboard.
I have seen posts reported as from both sides that I believe were neither SWA or AT.
Early on we had outside agitators stirring the pot for their amusement.
I joined this site to state my opinions for a fair SLI for SWA mechanics only and to defend SWA mechanics and our AMFA reps from attacks.
I will fade away shortly after this is decided without gloating or spiking the football if we receive a fair conclusion in my eyes only.
I speak only for myself but believe the great majority of SWA mechs are reasonable and will accept AT mechs with no hard feelings if this passes.
A few low seniority SWA guys may never get over it though because they feel only a total staple is fair to them.
The-AMT forum appears to be the place to vent radical views from anyone who can claim to be anyone working anywhere.

 

[swamt]

I too agree with WNMECH. The majority of the SWA guys will welcome all you guys when this is all overwith.
AvTech04, you really should not let yourself get all worked up over the amt postings. There are 2 guys on that forum posting as me. And as someone else said there are people not employed by either SWA or AT stiring the pot. I will assure you, I am certain a paticular union is trying to railroad this SLI getting voted on. There is a really good chance that this thing will pass this time. A certain union would love to see this thing goto arbitration. This way they can throw their hands up in the air and say "wasn't our fault, the arbitrators ruling is binding". That way it would not look as if the teamsters gave in at the nego table. And, let's not forget, the teamsters were soooooo focussed on trying to get back at AMFA that they wanted to look like the winner in nego, instead they looked like a complete inept union looking out for it's own concerns and political agenda.
Just remember, this is business, nothing personal. Everyone (including some SWA guys) need to remove the personal side of it and leave it at home. AMFA will treat this as a business transaction, as well as the company will too. Once this transaction is complete, it will be back to normal. You guys are actually seeing first hand how well AMFA will protect you guys when you do come on board.
You guys have only 2 groups to blame for the 1.5 yrs this has dragged out to. The teamsters/ibt and your AirTran nego cmte. The nego cmte for strong holding at DOH, only moving to 2.5 and stating nothing lower. And the teamsters /ibt for their continuous political agendas to get back at AMFA, and doing everything they could to come out above AMFA after all this is done. As we all know this little stint ran by the teamsters/ibt hurt them way more than they know. This whole thing was being watched by the entire union industry. Other unions doing card drives in the future, I will assure you, will be using this very SLI nego example for all to be educated.
Settle down. What happens-happens. Wait till after the Road Shows (RS) are done we will have a better idea. BTW; I think the RS have started. Some mentioned that the 7th -9th will be done in Dallas. No dates or times have been posted as of yet.

 

[SWA.TECH]

I believe a lot of the posts over there are BS.
When you can post as anonymous, some idiots go overboard.
I have seen posts reported as from both sides that I believe were neither SWA or AT.
Early on we had outside agitators stirring the pot for their amusement.
I joined this site to state my opinions for a fair SLI for SWA mechanics only and to defend SWA mechanics and our AMFA reps from attacks.
I will fade away shortly after this is decided without gloating or spiking the football if we receive a fair conclusion in my eyes only.
I speak only for myself but believe the great majority of SWA mechs are reasonable and will accept AT mechs with no hard feelings if this passes.
A few low seniority SWA guys may never get over it though because they feel only a total staple is fair to them.
The-AMT forum appears to be the place to vent radical views from anyone who can claim to be anyone working anywhere.

the funny thing about accepting it, or not so funny depending on how you see it, is the fact that the lower seniority guys stand to gain the highest percentage gain , in comparison to the senior guys... never ceases to amaze me.

 

[SWA.TECH]

I too agree with WNMECH. The majority of the SWA guys will welcome all you guys when this is all overwith.
AvTech04, you really should not let yourself get all worked up over the amt postings. There are 2 guys on that forum posting as me. And as someone else said there are people not employed by either SWA or AT stiring the pot. I will assure you, I am certain a paticular union is trying to railroad this SLI getting voted on. There is a really good chance that this thing will pass this time. A certain union would love to see this thing goto arbitration. This way they can throw their hands up in the air and say "wasn't our fault, the arbitrators ruling is binding". That way it would not look as if the teamsters gave in at the nego table. And, let's not forget, the teamsters were soooooo focussed on trying to get back at AMFA that they wanted to look like the winner in nego, instead they looked like a complete inept union looking out for it's own concerns and political agenda.
Just remember, this is business, nothing personal. Everyone (including some SWA guys) need to remove the personal side of it and leave it at home. AMFA will treat this as a business transaction, as well as the company will too. Once this transaction is complete, it will be back to normal. You guys are actually seeing first hand how well AMFA will protect you guys when you do come on board.
You guys have only 2 groups to blame for the 1.5 yrs this has dragged out to. The teamsters/ibt and your AirTran nego cmte. The nego cmte for strong holding at DOH, only moving to 2.5 and stating nothing lower. And the teamsters /ibt for their continuous political agendas to get back at AMFA, and doing everything they could to come out above AMFA after all this is done. As we all know this little stint ran by the teamsters/ibt hurt them way more than they know. This whole thing was being watched by the entire union industry. Other unions doing card drives in the future, I will assure you, will be using this very SLI nego example for all to be educated.
Settle down. What happens-happens. Wait till after the Road Shows (RS) are done we will have a better idea. BTW; I think the RS have started. Some mentioned that the 7th -9th will be done in Dallas. No dates or times have been posted as of yet.

RS today in BWI.

 

[swamt]

RS today in BWI.

How did the RS go in BWI? Did anyone bring up anything new to be addressed? What is the overall feeling of how BWI might vote?

 

[swamt]

The Road Shows have been set for Dallas.
This coming Tuesday May 4th
0600 for graves
1200 for day shift
1400 for eves

Come all for info and questions...

 

[QA4Jet-A]

Are you sure you don't mean May 8th?

 

[swamt]

Are you sure you don't mean May 8th?

My bad. Yes May 8th. Thx.

 

[swamt]

The Road Shows have been set for Dallas.
This coming Tuesday May 4th
0600 for graves
1200 for day shift
1400 for eves

Come all for info and questions...

Sorry guys. I screwed up on the date. It's not May 4th, It's May 8th which is this coming Tuesday. I was signing all day todays date, guess I brought it over to here.
The times are correct at least. And It's posted on AMFA11.com
Thx to QA4Jet for pointing it out.

 

[squidly]

[sup]I still can't believe our union would sell out our own guys, 4 years is not enough and hurts alot of our less senior guys. I'm still a NO. Lets see what arbitration holds. As for our union, the teamsters may have their problems and i'd never take them back, but amfa isn't being very unified selling out junior guys. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO[/sup]

 

[SWA.TECH]

[sup]I still can't believe our union would sell out our own guys, 4 years is not enough and hurts alot of our less senior guys. I'm still a NO. Lets see what arbitration holds. As for our union, the teamsters may have their problems and i'd never take them back, but amfa isn't being very unified selling out junior guys. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO[/sup]

Are you a union rep? if not I reccomend volunteering some time to the cause. Alot of armchair cowboys have alot of great ideas, only to crawl out of the woodwork when an agreement in pricipal has been reached by three parties , all with different agendas.... Dont get me wrong , this deal will never be "fair" there are the peole it affects alot, and the ones it doesnt and some in the middle. At this point its about getting the junior guys the most we can. PM me .

 

[swamt]

[sup]I still can't believe our union would sell out our own guys, 4 years is not enough and hurts alot of our less senior guys. I'm still a NO. Lets see what arbitration holds. As for our union, the teamsters may have their problems and i'd never take them back, but amfa isn't being very unified selling out junior guys. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO[/sup]

The union has not sold anyone out. May I ask what your seniority is? If we go to arb. It maybe nothing, notta, ziltch as far as an enhancement in seniority. Also the 401K and Denver maint will be gone forever if you vote this down. Mr. Ryan has been heard saying that if we vote the 401K offer down this time, it will not be seen again, even in sec 6 coming up. He has also said we were lucky to even have it now after voting it down last time. Here's another thought, why spend all that money, and delay for well over 3-5 years for something that will end up being the same as we are voting on now. IMO, I don't think an arbitrator will give any more than the 4 years. However, we will be with out the 401K match as well as the Denver maint., and would have to spend millions upon millions for the same ruling. I, for one, will be voting "YES"

 

[SWA.TECH]

Are you a union rep? if not I reccomend volunteering some time to the cause. Alot of armchair cowboys have alot of great ideas, only to crawl out of the woodwork when an agreement in pricipal has been reached by three parties , all with different agendas.... Dont get me wrong , this deal will never be "fair" there are the peole it affects alot, and the ones it doesnt and some in the middle. At this point its about getting the junior guys the most we can. PM me .

Volunteer to be a union rep, unless you already are, which I seriously doubt... Rather than wait a year and a half into negotiations. Its great you have all kinds of ideas on how to "negotiate" with a union that wouldnt even accept our withdrawl paperwork. Im sure you could have done a far better job... The guys on the sidelines can always do it better, funny how there always the ones on the sidelines.

 

[swamt]

Are you a union rep? if not I reccomend volunteering some time to the cause. Alot of armchair cowboys have alot of great ideas, only to crawl out of the woodwork when an agreement in pricipal has been reached by three parties , all with different agendas.... Dont get me wrong , this deal will never be "fair" there are the peole it affects alot, and the ones it doesnt and some in the middle. At this point its about getting the junior guys the most we can. PM me .

Couldn't agree more. With the observers getting paid for their time while observing for the SLI negos, there was no excuss why some of these guys couldn't have attended, and, they could have givin their input and very possibly made a difference. For you guys out there that think they don't listen to observers, we have had major changes in contracts language due to observers speaking up and giving different points of views. Again, no excusses. So please don't start complaining about the nego cnte "selling you out" or any other members.
I always get my updates from the observers and the nego cmte themselves. Both updates pretty well match to a "T". These guys are working long hard hours away from family and they are in fact getting the best possible deal they can get for their members. MPO, we will not get any better than the 4 years, dispatchers group have prooven this. Their case was brought out in arbitration identicle to the way AMFA is going to do. I feel very strong that we will still recieve the 4 yrs. However, not worth my time or money to take a chance of all of it going away, why gamble with a for sure thing???