Even so its a group effort to AGREE on the arbitrator. They are done, crying over spilled milk. The argument in itself is BS. It's an agreed upon process, that is used as a last resort to reach a decision. We've lost arbitrations before, we press on. This whole I heard story lost its validity simply due to its initial ill informed author.... pathetic.
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Even so its a group effort to AGREE on the arbitrator. They are done, crying over spilled milk. The argument in itself is BS. It's an agreed upon process, that is used as a last resort to reach a decision. We've lost arbitrations before, we press on. This whole I heard story lost its validity simply due to its initial ill informed author.... pathetic.
Again, its funny to me all the silence from ALL the AT people now that an independent Arbitrator has made a ruling that simply re itterates what SWA employees have been saying all along!! Show us some Fairness, the best attempt at saying anything is Avtech trying to say he heard from a friend who heard from his friend from a guy at Mcdonalds in ATL that the Arbitrator was a Plant, a secret SWA guy who sold the Dispatchers down the river for his $950 a day fee!!
Count the AT reponses since the Decision was made, chirp, chirp, chirp go the crickets!! They still get the Huge Windfall but they cant play the Victims any longer(reality sucks) ,,, But remember that some of AT employees may have to be incoveinenced a little bit from their normal lifes, yes they will be making $30,000 MORE a year to be inconveinenced,,Does this sudden silence not show us the true character, what do we have to look fwd to??
What if, What if a year ago the AT people would of just admited that they were Getting the WINDFALL , WE at SWA got NOTHING and with that Truth AT would of said, hey SWA here is 4-5 years Boost and thank god we now work for a better company? A tremendously HUGE what if, but I will tell you that this whole BUYOUT would of been far smoother and most if not all "Depts" at SWA would of welcomed them with open arms!!
Yet here we are and the AT Divide has been created, could this all been avoided if FAiRNESS was a concept a certain group in ATL understood?? or if they Could of stepped back from the Victim role enough to see it from our Eyes?? Those What Ifs we will NEVER know the answers too AND this Divide may now be FAR to wide and deep to ever be closed!!
Their Hand was Perfectly Over Played, so they talk about Appeal Appeal Appeal, but the truth shall set you free!! WINDFALL vs NOTHING
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I touched on this subject a little earlier on. They can appeal all they want, and yes WNMECH, your correct, it would have to go thru federal judge. However, TWU 540 and 550 both had the opportunity to run fact sheets on each and every member within the arbitrators list of arbitrators. If they did not do thier homework prior to selection day, that's thier own fault. There is a process for striking arbitrators for any reason, and TWU local 540 did not excersize it with this arbitrator. 540 should have brought this out, and struck this one from the list. Pretty sure the judge will side with the arbitrator as they had the full oppertunity to investigate and strike him. As we never heard any rumblings prior to thier arbitration, the TWU 540 is now grasping for anything to lean on to get rid of the ruling (binding that is).
Now here's an interesting question. Let's say a federal judge rules to keep the ruling as is. TWU 540 has already admitted that they screwed up by allowing this arbitrator to rule and not be struck from list. Just by the appeal process they are saying they should have caught this sooner. Here's my question, does the AT membership have a DFR case against TWU 540, for not diligently investigating each arbitrator on the list for striking reasons??
And all of this is only rumors or BS as it stands for now. Nothing has been confirmed as far as the TWU appealing the ruling...
S
Swadl
Guest
Remember guys that this current SLI/TA is not done yet! The Comte still needs to sell it to the members. And there is still a lot of members who do not like it and think we should get a better bump say 6-8 years. I just want both sides AT &SWA to realize this.
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Here's the arbitrators first page of his resume. Take note of the "permanate panels" para. Right smack dab in the middle is Southwest Airlines/TWU. This is public record and I found it in 2 minutes.
Plus he is listed on a "permanate panel" dealing with the very same union groups that chose him. I comepletely fault the TWU 540 for not doing thier due diligence of investigating all the arbitrators on the list. TWU 540 has comepletely dropped the ball on this one. And actually, having an arbitrator that is on a permanate panel with the very same union that represents both sides seems to me to be the perfect pick.
OOps. Sorry guys couldn't copy and post, here's the site though:
http://www.nmb.gov/arbitrator-resumes/barnard-john_res.pdf
Plus he is listed on a "permanate panel" dealing with the very same union groups that chose him. I comepletely fault the TWU 540 for not doing thier due diligence of investigating all the arbitrators on the list. TWU 540 has comepletely dropped the ball on this one. And actually, having an arbitrator that is on a permanate panel with the very same union that represents both sides seems to me to be the perfect pick.
OOps. Sorry guys couldn't copy and post, here's the site though:
http://www.nmb.gov/arbitrator-resumes/barnard-john_res.pdf
Why are you Spreading unfounded Rumors, what if anything could that possibly help!
When I say that most people I talk to are afraid of the Attitudes Swa will inherit in this deal and you Blow a gasket,,, wow Avtech you seem to have your own set of rules as well as your own boundries called Reality.
Seems all the name calling is from YOU,, just so I understand your line of reasoning.. you call SWAtech and myself -Dickhole,Stupid, Teenage Punk,Pathetic, Dim Wit, Idiodic, Childish?? in your best attempt not to respond to Us.
So by reverting to childish attacks and with Angry and Juvenile Insults you are completely ignoring us? Does that make sense to anyone Else? Name calling is the best you can do, just seems so shallow and impetuous. Cmon man you can do better
Avtech do you ever listen to yourself?
well dont, even you couldnt make sense of it? Just to ease your mind, here at SWA we have a Clear Skies program that may help you out with your anger issues as well as your outbursts, passive/aggressive narcissism and control issues. They may even be able to help you get a handle on the Delusions you seem to be fighting with. I can get the number for you if you wish!- Thread Starter
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Here's some interesting reading from another arbitration ruling from John B. Barnard, that was fought after he gave his ruling. I only supplied the paragragh that says state law allows for appeals as long as they follow certain criteria.
If you want more cases search yahoo with "John B. Barnard arbitrator" the fist hit is his resume. The second on list is this story, kind of interesting;
According to state law, the opinions of arbitrators can be appealed to a district court if arbitrators lacked or exceeded their authority. Officers or police officials also can appeal if they think the arbitrator's opinion was based on "fraud, collusion or other unlawful means."
The last case Austin police challenged in court was in 2000 and involved a ruling in which an arbitrator listed several conditions an officer must meet before his reinstatement. Former Police Chief Stan Knee argued that the arbitrator exceeded his authority in making those demands but later withdrew the suit.
If you want more cases search yahoo with "John B. Barnard arbitrator" the fist hit is his resume. The second on list is this story, kind of interesting;
According to state law, the opinions of arbitrators can be appealed to a district court if arbitrators lacked or exceeded their authority. Officers or police officials also can appeal if they think the arbitrator's opinion was based on "fraud, collusion or other unlawful means."
The last case Austin police challenged in court was in 2000 and involved a ruling in which an arbitrator listed several conditions an officer must meet before his reinstatement. Former Police Chief Stan Knee argued that the arbitrator exceeded his authority in making those demands but later withdrew the suit.
xUT
Veteran
Absolutely!
xUT
Veteran
xUT
Veteran
Interesting, I always bounced contract information between AMFA National and AMFA 11.
AMFA National has deleted the latest SWA AMFA contract.
That's OK for me as I have a copy, just wondering why.
B) xUT
AMFA National has deleted the latest SWA AMFA contract.
That's OK for me as I have a copy, just wondering why.
B) xUT
AvTech04
Senior
Thanks for the due diligence, but what does permanent panel mean SWAMT?? I'm interpreting it to mean that he arbitrates or mediates on a regular basis for disputes (grievances) between SWA and the TWU. This must be what all the fuss is about. Thank you for the clarification and not for spouting off like some others have a tendency to do.
Have you guys got me on ignore or something?
I posted this resume info yesterday, just not the link.
QA4Jet-A
Veteran
not on ignore from this end. I appreciate all posts, not always agree but, there is a time to move forward and put our differences to rest and work together!
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To be honest, I do not know what "permanate panel" truely means. However, I tend to believe as you, that he is on a list of arbitrators that SWA and the TWU has to choose from when they have to use an arbitrator for a decision breaker. With that being said, I still believe he is considered to be a completely seperate party from any of the enities. I would believe he is a "contractor" per sae. He is also listed on a permanate panel for American Airlines/TWU as well. I believe this has nothing to do with a conflict of interest as the rumor mill is contending. Look at it this way, there are currently arbitrators on a list, more than likely called a "permanate panel list" that if we (AMFA and teamsters) were to end up in arbitration over our seniority integration, would have to select from. In other words none of them are tied directly to the company or the union, they are just listed as an option and it's up to the 2 sides rather they accept or reject each arbitrator listed on said list. Hope this helps. Again, I think this guy is completely neutral now. And the rumors will start to get squashed.
You gotta remember, the company and the unions have been thru arbitrations before, both sides know what they are legally bound to do. I don't think either side would risk "slipping in" a certain arbitrator to be able to rule in favor of one of the 2 sides. I believe the TWU 540 is grasping for something, as they did not like the ruling going in the SWA dispatchers favor. All this is my own assumption, if I am wrong, please someone correct me. The dispatchers are done. The rampers will reveal the next arbitrators ruling on June 1. And I still hold to my original post that they will get a 2.5-3 yr boost, with a higher percentage leaning towards the 3 yr mark. If you hear anything else AvTech feel free to post. You will more than likely hear more runblings than we will over here...
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WNMECH is correct. He posted back on page 162 about the resume, which caught my attention and got me to research myself. That's when I fell across the resume and the other arbitration rulings that John B. Barnard has been involved with. If you all research it yourselves you will find even more rulings and appeals after this arbitrator has made decisions. It is interesting reading. Later all...
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